Posted on 02/20/2017 5:31:52 AM PST by metmom
A common question for many is, “Can I lose my salvation?” I’ve heard both sides of the argument, and only God truly knows a person’s heart, but I can share a few thoughts. The reason there is a debate is because the Scriptures teach that salvation is a gift from God that cannot be earned, but they also offer warnings about falling away. There should be a healthy tension between God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority.
One school of thought suggests that salvation cannot be lost, as in losing your car keys, but that it can be left, as in walking away from it. This may be why Jesus spoke of the man who said in his heart “my master delays His coming; therefore, I will turn from living a godly life”. When the master returned unexpectedly, the servant was banished because he chose to turn from what he knew to be right.
In another passage, Jesus said, “You have left your first love,” when speaking to the church in Ephesus (Revelation 2:4). James 5:19-20 adds, if anyone wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, a soul is saved from death. If anything, these Scriptures, and many more, reinforce the fact that we have certain responsibilities.
(Excerpt) Read more at westsidechristianfellowship.org ...
If you believe that Judas wasn’t Saved at some point, the implication would be that Jesus chose Judas in order for him to fail which would make Jesus appear to be duplicitous.
That’s not a good look for the Savior.
If you argument is that the proof that Judas was unSaved was the betrayal, that would be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
No. Why are you making assumptions like that? And what does that have to do with the topic of the thread?
2.) Sinning puts us under the direction of Lucifer, did you actually think that Christ is still there for people who by design put themselves under Lucifers control?
Yes.
Romans 5:7-8 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Luke 19:10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”
He came to save us when we sold ourselves into sin.
And just because we still sin, does not mean we are un-born again and God kicks us out of His family.
Do you disown your own children every time they do something wrong?
Good question. The Bible says if we believe we will be saved. God saves us knowing we will sin again. I don’t think you will lose your salvation, but I do think a saved person feels remorse when they sin, and that they seek forgiveness and an earnestness to not sin again.
If you deny God after you have been saved......I don’t know.
I admit that I am just a babe in the woods when it comes to such things, I can only go on what is in my heart and how I celebrate God’s love for me and his sacrifice so that I can be saved. I am always growing in my understanding of God’s creation and his plan for me.
I appreciate the discussion.
If you want to read a good book about the subject, try to find a copy of Once saved, always saved? : a New Testament study of apostasy / Frederick W. Claybrook, Jr.
Paul writes in Hebrews about people leaving the faith, returning to their old religion. Don’t give up. Run the race and finish.
Rev_3:5 The one who overcomes, this one will be clothed in white clothing. And I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
But Jesus didn't act or not act for appearance sake.
No matter what anyone does, SOMEONE is always going to find fault.
Here we had Jesus, perfect in every way, the the Pharisees still found fault with Him.
If being perfect wasn't good enough for them, then NOTHING Jesus could do would satisfy them.
Jesus picked Judas for the reason of fulfilling prophecy and being God, He had the right to do it, no matter how or if someone misinterpreted it.
There's a world of difference between appearing to be duplicitous and actually being duplicitous.
And often that is based on worldview of the person observing.
Yep, if the Ol' King James was good enough for the Apostle Paul, its good enough for me.
Yes but we would be arguing that Jesus chose Judas specifically for him to fail. IOW Judas was condemned from the moment he was chosen. I don’t see that in the Scripture. Judas was stealing but Peter rebuked Jesus, calling him a liar. So sin was still present in the Disciples while Jesus was with them.
It reduces the whole of the Gospels into mere theater, with all the actors simply playing their roles.
Jesus didn't choose him TO fail.
Jesus chose him knowing what he would do.
No way Jesus is going to set someone up to fail.
IOW Judas was condemned from the moment he was chosen.
Judas was condemned before he was chosen. He was never saved in the first place.
How is that any different from God raising up Pharaoh?
I think the Great Commission gives a basic answer. Whomever is a disciple, is of Christ’s. There’s no qualifying beyond that. It’s our encouragement when you fail.
I think a falling away is mentioned in the bible; somewhere...
“Jesus didn’t choose him TO fail.
Jesus chose him knowing what he would do.”
Which was fail. He failed because he was chosen to fail. If he hadn’t been chosen, he would not have failed.
That’s why it is a self-fulfilling prophesy. It is speculation.
The text says “He was chosen and then he failed”. It just says, at some point, Jesus was aware Judas was going to fall. It doesn’t say when but we are made aware of it at the Last Supper.
God hardened Pharoah’s heart.
4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. 7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
-—Hebrews 6
Because Pharoah chose to have a hard heart.
We think in human terms and think God does, too - but God says:
"These things you have done, and I kept silent; You thought that I was altogether like you..." (Psalm 50:21a)
But He is not like us.
He is God - there is no other.
Correct but because He is God, we are not able to understand Him. That’s why it is so important to rely on Scripture. It is our only source.
He was also predestined to betray Jesus.
Scripture?
My suggestion is that you read Romans 7 and answer the questions for yourself.
But does that mean they were truly saved when they fall away or not?
“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. (emphasis added)
...
Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?”
Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.
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