Can I lose My Salvation?

Westside Christian Fellowshihp ^ | Jan 12, 2017 | Shane Idleman

[metmom]

A common question for many is, “Can I lose my salvation?” I’ve heard both sides of the argument, and only God truly knows a person’s heart, but I can share a few thoughts. The reason there is a debate is because the Scriptures teach that salvation is a gift from God that cannot be earned, but they also offer warnings about falling away. There should be a healthy tension between God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility. This issue should not create a spirit of division, elitism, or theological superiority.

One school of thought suggests that salvation cannot be lost, as in losing your car keys, but that it can be left, as in walking away from it. This may be why Jesus spoke of the man who said in his heart “my master delays His coming; therefore, I will turn from living a godly life”. When the master returned unexpectedly, the servant was banished because he chose to turn from what he knew to be right.

In another passage, Jesus said, “You have left your first love,” when speaking to the church in Ephesus (Revelation 2:4). James 5:19-20 adds, if anyone wanders from the truth and someone turns him back, a soul is saved from death. If anything, these Scriptures, and many more, reinforce the fact that we have certain responsibilities.

[Elsie]

It worked fine for me!

[Elsie]

Quite interesting!

[af_vet_1981]

Seven times it is written in the book of Revelation that he who has an ear should hear what the Spirit says into the churches. It is not about watching for appointed times. The word works is predominant. Check the text.

[boatbums]

Well, since walking down front as a kid...

And if this 'kid' was hit by a car that jumped the curb and killed him as he was leaving the church, I bet you'd say he was now in the arms of Jesus.

Can we agree that GOD knows this kid's heart?

Acts 15:8
"And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;

[editor-surveyor]

.
Guess what?

The appointed times are 2/3 of the “works” you cling to.

Actually, Torah is not works, but simply obedience.

That is what our spiritual life is all about; bending our will and agenda to His.
.

[editor-surveyor]

.
Astounding was the word that came to mind.

I had long been a student of David Rohl’s work, but he did David one better.

It all fits like a glove. The secular world of archaeology is without a clue on Egypt.
.

[boatbums]

I also know of a few people who fit the description of your friend. Consider this...they are obviously wrong by rejecting Christ especially if as you say they once led others to saving faith and professed Christ as Lord and Savior and walked the Christian life. Right now, however, they are being deceived. That doesn't mean they will always think that way and if they have the indwelling Holy Spirit they are being drawn back to the Lord - He abides faithful...He cannot deny Himself. We should continue to pray for them and be the example of what genuine Christian love is all about. But, if in the end they die in unbelief, we know from Scripture that: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. (I John 2:19)

One more thing, the passage from Hebrews says "It is impossible to bring them back to repent again...". That says to me - if we take the interpretation you provided - there is no hope at all for such a person. Do they really only get one chance and then they are condemned for eternity because God won't allow them to come back to the faith? Even a sincere faith? I don't see that so I don't agree with that view.

[boatbums]

The problem with that analogy where the "church" is the ship is that BELIEVERS are the church. It is not some monolithic ethereal "thing" that believers climb aboard.

As you come to Him, the living stone, rejected by men, but chosen and precious in God’s sight, you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “See, I lay in Zion a stone, a chosen and precious cornerstone; and the one who believes in Him will never be put to shame." (I Peter 2:4-6)

[amorphous]

Another good one,

Exodus Decoded and the Search for the Real Mount Sinai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjW8RxXB0NI

Published on Jul 25, 2016

Exodus Decoded is a documentary created by Jewish Canadian filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici, in which new evidence in favor of the historicity of the Biblical Exodus is explored. It is partially narrated by film director James Cameron. Jacobovici suggests that the Exodus took place around 1500 BCE during the reign of pharaoh Ahmose I, and coincided with the eruption of Santorini that most scholars believe ended the Minoan civilization. In the documentary, the plagues that ravished Egypt in the Bible are explained as having resulted from that volcanic eruption, and a related collapse in the Nile river delta. Much of Jacobovici's archaeological evidence for the Exodus comes from Egypt.

The two American adventurers Bob Cornuke and Larry Williams follow mysterious clues to find the true Mt. Sinai. Their discoveries they unveil will shock the world and rewrite history. Centuries of tradition, place this holy mountain in the Sinai peninsula of Egypt. But compelling evidence will show that this hallowed ground, where Moses was told to take the shoes off his feet before the burning bush, may actually be in the barren deserts of northwestern Saudi Arabia. Epic myth becomes burning truth on the Mountain of Fire.

[boatbums]

God knows. But yes, God has given men the ability to decide. Thus the call to repent is a real call and not a lie. It involves a real choice, as is clearly taught in scripture.

I think the key is to imagine the door to heaven with a big sign overhead that says "Whosoever will" and once inside the other side of the sign reads "Chosen in Him before the Foundation of the World".

[terycarl]

And she didn't even eat the host or sip the wine!

Nope, sh was just a normal protestant.

[terycarl]

And she didn't even eat the host or sip the wine!

Nope, she was just a normal protestant.

[af_vet_1981]

The appointed times are 2/3 of the “works” you cling to.

No, these are the works to cling to:

Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shal never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Second Peter, Catholic chapter one, Protestant verses one to eleven,

Revelation, Catholic chapter three, Protestant verses eighteen to twenty nine,

as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[metmom]

I think the meaning of chosen is not that God picks some to save and not others based on some inexplicable criteria, or just His whim.

I think what it is, is that God chose to save those whom He foreknew would accept the gift of salvation were it offered to them, as opposed to letting them go to hell for their sins as they deserved.

I don’t know if that gets across the distinction that I am trying to make, but there’s a difference.

[Elsie]

...because God won't allow them to come back to the faith?

'Tis not GOD's fault that they have REJECTED Him.

[Elsie]

...because God won't allow them to come back to the faith?

'Tis not GOD's fault that they have REJECTED Him.

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1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Hebrews 6:4-6 - For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,  

2 Corinthians 11:3 - But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Revelation 2:4-5 - Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.  

Hebrews 3:12-19 - Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.  

Romans 11:19-22 - Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.    

2 Peter 2:20-22 - For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

1 Timothy 4:16 - Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Matthew 24:10-13 - And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.    

Revelation 3:11 - Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

James 1:12 - Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

James 5:19-20 - Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;  

1 Corinthians 9:27 - But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

[Elsie]

Nope, she was just a normal protestant.

...Rahab the prostitute...

You sure you're not MORMON?

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Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

[Elsie]

No, these are the works to cling to:

 

 

 

 

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Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

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John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

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1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

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James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

 

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[Elsie]

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

[metmom]

Our “garment” is the righteousness of Yehova through the loving and earnest keeping of the Torah he has written on our hearts.

Our garment of righteousness is the righteousness of Jesus Christ imputed to us which is credited to our account when we believe.

It's ALL God's doing because our righteousness is as filthy rags in His sight and cannot ever be free enough from the contamination of sin to be worth anything.

Not to mention that it's not that the righteous works save us anyway because one sin is all that it takes to condemn us and a lifetime of otherwise perfect living and righteousness STILL would not be enough to nullify that sin.

The ONLY way is through forgiveness and forgiveness isn't forgiveness if it is earned or has conditions placed on it. Then it is wages due.

Works ARE important but not in regard to attaining salvation. That itself is a free gift of God.

Nor are they important for keeping salvation cause if we couldn't earn it by works, we can't keep it by works.

Works play a whole different role in God's economy but meriting heaven isn't one of them.