The Meaning of Grace

Studying God’s Word ping

All pardon for sins ultimately comes from Christ’s finished work on Calvary, but how is this pardon received by individuals? Did Christ leave us any means within the Church to take away sin? The Bible says he gave us two means.

Baptism was given to take away the sin inherited from Adam (original sin) and any sins we personally committed before baptism—sins we personally commit are called actual sins, because they come from our own acts.

Thus on the day of Pentecost, Peter told the crowds, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38), and when Paul was baptized he was told, “And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16). And so Peter later wrote, “Baptism . . . now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ” (1 Pet. 3:21).

For sins committed after baptism, a different sacrament is needed. It has been called penance, confession, and reconciliation, each word emphasizing one of its.aspects. During his life, Christ forgave sins, as in the case of the woman caught in adultery (John 8:1–11) and the woman who anointed his feet (Luke 7:48). He exercised this power in his human capacity as the Messiah or Son of man, telling us, “the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” (Matt. 9:6), which is why the Gospel writer himself explains that God “had given such authority to men” (Matt. 9:8).

Since he would not always be with the Church visibly, Christ gave this power to other men so the Church, which is the continuation of his presence throughout time (Matt. 28:20), would be able to offer forgiveness to future generations. He gave his power to the apostles, and it was a power that could be passed on to their successors and agents, since the apostles wouldn’t always be on earth either, but people would still be sinning.
https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-forgiveness-of-sins

Being in the state of mortal sin denies one access to the graces of God until the sins are forgiven.

Mortal sin is defined by St. Augustine (Contra Faustum, XXII, xxvii) as “Dictum vel factum vel concupitum contra legem aeternam”, i.e. something said, done or desired contrary to the eternal law, or a thought, word, or deed contrary to the eternal law. This is a definition of sin as it is a voluntary act. As it is a defect or privation it may be defined as an aversion from God, our true last end, by reason of the preference given to some mutable good.

Baptism does not cleanse sin.

Hebrews 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Water or physical actions cannot do it.

For sins committed after baptism, a different sacrament is needed. It has been called penance, confession, and reconciliation,

Nope. Not found in Scripture either.

THIS is.....

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Forgiveness is as simple as confessing.

We have God's PROMISE that it's so and we can take that to the bank.

Being in the state of mortal sin denies one access to the graces of God until the sins are forgiven.

God's grace is not based on works. God pours out His grace on us to we can come top the point of confessing our sin in the first place.

If God's grace depends on works, then it's no longer grace but wages due for work performed.

It nullifies grace.

Grace is probably the most misunderstood word in the English language and the most misunderstood concept in the Christian world.

The Grace of God is not a free get out of jail ticket that so many Christians profess it to be. Grace simply means that despite our imperfections, our sinning state that God accepts us because of the Love that The Lord Jesus Christ has for us, but that is IF and only IF we accept Him as Lord and Savior and try to do his will, repent of those sins that would separate us from Him.

People often associate FREE with Grace. Grace is not free. Christ paid for the ability to offer Grace, He paid a huge price by bearing our pains and sorrows and accepting our punishment for our sins. He paid a horrible price for the ability to offer us Grace. He however requires a price from us before we are offered Grace. First we must accept Him as Lord and Savior, Second we must leave our sins on the alter and beg forgiveness of them. Some say it is a simple matter of confessing Christ Jesus as Lord, it is not that simple. There will be a rude awakening for many people who believe that on Resurrection morning.

The Lord loves us and wants us to be His, but He also wants us to love and serve Him and we can’t serve Him in sin.

Some say it is a simple matter of confessing Christ Jesus as Lord, it is not that simple.

So what else do you think is required?

You seem to select only those passages that conform to your personal interpretation.

Your comment: “Baptism does not cleanse sin.”

Thus the early Church Fathers wrote in the Nicene Creed (A.D. 381), “We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.”

Cyprian of Carthage

“[T]he baptism of public witness and of blood cannot profit a heretic unto salvation, because there is no salvation outside the Church.” (Letters 72[73]:21 [A.D. 253]).

And the Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The Lord himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation [John 3:5]. . . . Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament [Mark 16:16]” (CCC 1257).

The Christian belief that baptism is necessary for salvation is so unshakable that even the Protestant Martin Luther affirmed the necessity of baptism. He wrote: “Baptism is no human plaything but is instituted by God himself. Moreover, it is solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we shall not be saved

Your comment: “Forgiveness is as simple as confessing.”

Christ told the apostles to follow his example: “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you” (John 20:21). Just as the apostles were to carry Christ’s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: “Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt. 18:18).

This power was understood as coming from God: “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation” (2 Cor. 5:18). Indeed, confirms Paul, “So we are ambassadors for Christ” (2 Cor. 5:20).

Your comment: “God’s grace is not based on works.”
That is correct. God’s grace is a gift to us, but one does not receive this gift if they are in the state of mortal sin.

The early Church Fathers, of course, were unanimous in teaching the reality of mortal sin. They had to embrace the doctrine of mortal sin precisely because they recognized not only the salvific power of baptism but also the damning power of certain serious sins. The Church taught that “baptism . . . now saves you” (1 Pet. 3:21; see the Catholic Answers tracts Baptismal Grace andBorn of Water and the Spirit). However, since during the persecutions some baptized people denied Christ, and since Christ taught that “whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 10:33), the Church Fathers recognized that it was possible to lose the grace of salvation after baptism.

“Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you be not made complete in the last time” (Didache 16 [A.D. 70]).

If sanctifying grace dwells in your soul when you die, then you have the equipment you need, and you can live in heaven (though you may need to be purified first in purgatory; cf. 1 Cor. 3:12–16). If it doesn’t dwell in your soul when you die—in other words, if your soul is spiritually dead by being in the state of mortal sin (Gal. 5:19-21)— you cannot live in heaven. You then have to face an eternity of spiritual death: the utter separation of your spirit from God (Eph. 2:1, 2:5, 4:18). The worst part of this eternal separation will be that you yourself would have caused it to be

You seem to select only those passages that conform to your personal interpretation.

You did too.

It's not what the church fathers say about cleansing from sin that counts but what Jesus says about it.

And just now is 1 John 1:9 wrong?

God’s grace is a gift to us, but one does not receive this gift if they are in the state of mortal sin.

They HAVE to in order to be free from sin.

There is no grace needed for those who have no sin.

Romans 5:20

Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

If sanctifying grace dwells in your soul when you die, then you have the equipment you need, and you can live in heaven (though you may need to be purified first in purgatory; cf. 1 Cor. 3:12–16)

Purgatory doesn't cleanse sin.

Hebrews 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

ONLY the sacrifice of Jesus, the atonement, is what cleanses from sin.

Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Sorry, a catholic empowerment scheme is not The Way, The Truth, and The Light. It empowers the hierarchy but that hierarchy is without God’s Spirit in their dictating means to an end. God’s Grace is between GOD and the individual. GOD needs no intermediaries to dole out His Grace.

your comment: “And just now is 1 John 1:9 wrong?” I didn’t say that, but you ignored the rest of the story:

Christ told the apostles to follow his example: “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you” (John 20:21). Just as the apostles were to carry Christ’s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: “Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven” (Matt. 18:18).

This power was understood as coming from God: “All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation” (2 Cor. 5:18).

Your comment: “There is no grace needed for those who have no sin.” The Blessed Mother is Full of Grace.

Your comment: “ They HAVE to in order to be free from sin.”
It was implied that one continues to be in mortal sin. If one repents and receives forgiveness through the Sacrament of Reconciliation, then graces are received.

You can obtain supernatural life by yielding to actual graces you receive. God keeps giving you these divine pushes, and all you have to do is go along.

For instance, he moves you to repentance, and if you take the hint you can find yourself in the
confessional, where the guilt for your sins is remitted (John 20:21–23). Through the sacrament of penance, through your reconciliation to God, you receive sanctifying grace. But you can lose it again by sinning mortally (1 John 5:16–17).

Keep that word in mind: mortal. It means death. Mortal sins are deadly sins because they kill off this supernatural life, this sanctifying grace. Mortal sins can’t coexist with the supernatural life, because by their nature such sins are saying “No” to God, while sanctifying grace would be saying “Yes.”

Your comment: “Purgatory doesn’t cleanse sin.”

All Christians agree that we won’t be sinning in heaven. Sin and final glorification are utterly incompatible. Therefore, between the sinfulness of this life and the glories of heaven, we must be made pure. Between death and glory there is a purification.

Thus, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “All who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. The Church gives the name purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned” (CCC 1030–1).

The concept of an after-death purification from sin and the consequences of sin is also stated in the New Testament in passages such as 1 Corinthians 3:11–15 and Matthew 5:25–26, 12:31–32.

The doctrine of purgatory, or the final purification, has been part of the true faith since before the time of Christ. The Jews already believed it before the coming of the Messiah, as revealed in the Old Testament (2 Macc. 12:41–45) as well as in other pre-Christian Jewish works, such as one which records that Adam will be in mourning “until the day of dispensing punishment in the last years, when I will turn his sorrow into joy” (The Life of Adam and Eve 46–7). Orthodox Jews to this day believe in the final purification, and for eleven months after the death of a loved one, they pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Kaddish for their loved one’s purification.

Jews, Catholics, and the Eastern Orthodox have always historically proclaimed the reality of the final purification. It was not until the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century that anyone denied this doctrine. As the quotes below from the early Church Fathers show, purgatory has been part of the Christian faith from the very beginning.

Some imagine that the Catholic Church has an elaborate doctrine of purgatory worked out, but there are only three essential components of the doctrine: (1) that a purification after death exists, (2) that it involves some kind of pain, and (3) that the purification can be assisted by the prayers and offerings by the living to God. Other ideas, such that purgatory is a particular “place” in the afterlife or that it takes time to accomplish, are speculations rather than doctrines.

Jesus said his Church would be “the light of the world.” He then noted that “a city set on a hill cannot be hid” (Matt. 5:14). This means his Church is a visible organization. It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches. Jesus promised, “I will build my Church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). This means that his Church will never be destroyed and will never fall away from him. His Church will survive until his return.

Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church.

Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on. The Catholic Church is today the most vigorous church in the world (and the largest, with a billion members: one sixth of the human race), and that is testimony not to the cleverness of the Church’s leaders, but to the protection of the Holy Spirit.

https://www.catholic.com/tract/pillar-of-fire-pillar-of-truth

You can believe what you want and blame the Catholic Church or accept the teachings of Jesus and His Church. We are all sinners and the mission of the Catholic church is to lead us to eternal life with God.

bm

. . . Second we must leave our sins on the alter and beg forgiveness of them.

Not according to Scripture. I John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

There is no begging here.

Neither was there begging by the forgiven malefactor on the cross: Luke 23:42-43: "42 And he was saying, “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” 43 And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.” You can read the context for yourself.

God bless, Brother.

Thus the early Church Fathers wrote in the Nicene Creed,

I don't recall that it was the early church fathers who were crucified on the cross for the forgiveness of sin. When they are, they can make the rules. Until then, I prefer Scripture to the early writings of the church.

For instance, he moves you to repentance, and if you take the hint you can find yourself in the confessional, where the guilt for your sins is remitted (John 20:21–23). Through the sacrament of penance, through your reconciliation to God, you receive sanctifying grace. But you can lose it again by sinning mortally (1 John 5:16–17).

Agree that God does move us to repentance.

However, John 20:21-23 has nothing to do with the roman catholic confessional booth or having to confess your sins to a priest. That is not evidenced in the NT church.

The Greek in 1 John, and the NT for that matter, tells us that if we believe Jesus is the Son of God, we do indeed have eternal life.

This false doctrine of mortal sins is not supported by the NT nor is the concept of purgatory and penance.

If there is any "work" we can do to prove our worthiness before God, the cross is nullified.

This passage from Colossians addressings exactly what Christ did for us when He died on the cross.

13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Col 2:13-14 NASB

As the certificate of debt is cancelled out the roman catholic concept of purgatory where we go to "get cleaned up" is voided.

but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7 NASB

The blood of Christ either cleanses us from all of our sins or it doesn't.

The secure position of the believer is further made clear by Paul in Ephesians where he writes:

7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:7-14 NASB

The astute reader will note our redemption is through His blood, we have forgiveness of our trespasses, we have an inheritance, after believing in Him, we are sealed by the Spirit, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance.

There is no good deed or work we can do to earn our salvation much as the roman catholic wants there to be.

Keep that word in mind: mortal. It means death. Mortal sins are deadly sins because they kill off this supernatural life, this sanctifying grace. Mortal sins can’t coexist with the supernatural life, because by their nature such sins are saying “No” to God, while sanctifying grace would be saying “Yes.”

This is yet another falsehood by the roman catholic church. Paul wrote "23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. Rms 3:23-26 NASB

Paul notes everyone...including Mary, has sinned. There are no exceptions save Christ of course.

Later in Romans 6:23 Paul wrote "the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Paul did not say, the wages of mortal sin, is death. He indicates all sin leads to death.

The catholic belief you can have the "little sins" or venial sins which don't have to be confessed to remain in fellowship with God, and still be right with God, shows a lack of understanding of sin. It goes back to a works based mentality which is rejected by the NT.

All sin separates us from God apart from faith in Christ.

The doctrine of purgatory, or the final purification, has been part of the true faith since before the time of Christ. The Jews already believed it before the coming of the Messiah, as revealed in the Old Testament (2 Macc. 12:41–45) as well as in other pre-Christian Jewish works, such as one which records that Adam will be in mourning “until the day of dispensing punishment in the last years, when I will turn his sorrow into joy” (The Life of Adam and Eve 46–7). Orthodox Jews to this day believe in the final purification, and for eleven months after the death of a loved one, they pray a prayer called the Mourner’s Kaddish for their loved one’s purification.

The appeal to Orthodox Jews again shows a works based mentality on the part of the roman catholic as the Orthodox do not believe Jesus is the Messiah.

But you may be on to something as it does not appear that many roman catholics have complete faith in the forgiveness of Christ through His shed blood which may also explain the roman catholic appeal to Mary for so much.

Peter, however, captures what Christ did for us on the cross and what belief in Him actually does for the believer.

24and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. 25For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls. 1 Peter 2:24-25 NASB

You asserted, " This means his Church is a visible organization." No, priest, it does not mean that. INDIVIDUALLY we are commanded to let our light shine (the presence of the Holy Spirit in us, not our works based goody two shoes with institutional succor from a hierarchy of priests) that the world will see HIS Grace and desire it, also.

You further asserted, " It must have characteristics that clearly identify it and that distinguish it from other churches." Pure demonic deception at work! HIS church, HIS EKKLESIA shines because of HIS Spirit presence int he believers, not because some institution makes bigger or more showy buildings and has bigger and more grandiose rituals. You are promoting the org which pays your room and board, but it is not 'the Church' Jesus established upon profession of faith in HIM (not your org, faith in HIM).

You opined thatr: " Among the Christian churches, only the Catholic Church has existed since the time of Jesus." In your own sentence you show you actually do know there is a differentiation from Christian and organizations. Sadly, you are stuck on the institutionalization meme, unable to break free from your institution to be a member of HIS REAL EKKLESIA ... but from a Catholic Priest, it is expected. Every other Christian church is an offshoot of the Catholic Church. That is the way satan wants you and others to see this. In looking at it from a false start you are then unable to see that it is immaterial if one org generates other orgs. Man-made religion is like that.

You are fond of asserting false axiomsL " Any merely human organization with such members would have collapsed early on." Zoroastrianism has been around longer that your org. Hinduism has been around much longer. You would not give these institutions credulity, so why use this fallacy to try and promote your org?

You commanded (or tried to command), " You can believe what you want and blame the Catholic Church or accept the teachings of Jesus and His Church." Fallacy of the undistributed middle seems top be a favorite with Catholic apologists ... and sirly Catholic prioests. I DO believe and seek to follow what JESUS teaches, but to presume a man made religious org such as Catholiciism has even close to necessary dogma which must be followed so salavation can eventually happen is ARROGANT to the dead spirit core.

So, if folks don't follow your org they get put on racks, boiled in oil, torn asunder, and tortured, as the CATHOLIC CHURCH way to force their salvation? Or is just suffering in your fabricated purgatory enough now? ... Oh that's right, your Catholic Purgatory is ONLY for Catholics! Nice twist that ...

your COMMENT: “I don’t recall that it was the early church fathers who were crucified on the cross for the forgiveness of sin. When they are, they can make the rules. Until then, I prefer Scripture to the early writings of the church.

You are right, it was Jesus that died on the cross for our sins (original sin so that we could be with God in Heaven). And Jesus taught His early followers by oral preaching and he entrusted His Apostles and successors to:

“Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold I am with you always, until the end of the age.” Matthew 28:19

Jesus did not command them to go write a book, but in the oral tradition of the time, instructed them to Baptize and Teach what they were taught. It was many years later the the New Testament was written and many more years before the Bible became commonly available in written form.

So you can thank the early church fathers that you have the written Bible and that passed on the teachings of Jesus in oral practice of preaching and writings. You seem to imply that the Bible is the only source of Truth from God. Can you provide the authority that all of God’s Truth is contained in the Bible? Can you provide the authority on whom can interpret the Bible?

You taught, “You are right, it was Jesus that died on the cross for our sins (original sin so that we could be with God in Heaven).” When you added ‘for original sin’ you opened a chasm that I will now ask you to elaborate upon, because I intend to show how your belief is catholic, but not Biblical, in that Jesus died for all my sins, not just my inherited original sin nat5ure. Give it a try, explain your innuendo.

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered, 47“Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?” 48And he ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days. Acts 10:44-48 NASB

Kinda makes you wonder sometimes if roman catholics read the NT in context....oh wait. Nevermind.

Could you please show us where in Scripture the phrase *original sin* is found?

And where in Scripture God tells us that Jesus only died for our sin nature?

What about the rest of our sins?

Didn’t Jesus die for those too?