Theologian: Shared Communion With Protestants Would be Blasphemy and Sacrilege

National Catholic Register ^ | January 2, 2017 | Edward Pentin

[BlessedBeGod]

...If the Church were to change its rules on shared Eucharistic Communion it would “go against Revelation and the Magisterium”, leading Christians to “commit blasphemy and sacrilege,” an Italian theologian has warned.

Drawing on the Church’s teaching based on Sacred Scripture and Tradition, Msgr. Nicola Bux, a former consulter to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, stressed that non-Catholic Christians must have undertaken baptism and confirmation in the Catholic Church, and repented of grave sin through sacramental confession, in order to be able to receive Jesus in the Eucharist.

Msgr. Bux was responding to the Register about concerns that elements of the current pontificate might be sympathetic of a form of “open Communion” proposed by the German Protestant theologian, Jürgen Moltmann.

The concerns have arisen primarily due to the Holy Father’s own comments on Holy Communion and Lutherans, his apparent support for some remarried divorcees to receive Holy Communion, and how others have used his frequently repeated maxim about the Eucharist: that it is “not a prize for the perfect, but a powerful medicine and nourishment for the weak.”

The debate specifically over intercommunion with Christian denominations follows recent remarks by Cardinal Walter Kasper who, in a Dec. 10 interview with Avvenire, said he hopes Pope Francis’ next declaration will open the way for intercommunion with other denominations “in special cases.”

The German theologian said shared Eucharistic communion is just a matter of time, and that the Pope’s recent participation in the Reformation commemoration in Lund has given “a new thrust” to the “ecumenical process.”

Pope Francis has often expressed his admiration for Cardinal Kasper’s theology whose thinking has significantly influenced…the priorities of this pontificate, particularly on the Eucharist.

For Moltmann, Holy Communion is “the Lord's supper, not something organized by a church or a denomination”...

[Elsie]

Boy - another question for my pastor (or you!?). As Jesus was fully man and fully God, after the resurrection, is He now ONLY God - or was His human spirit also resurrected? I’m guessing both natures of Him are alive and well in Heaven.

That's a question I've not seen before and quite interesting. But since there is NO way of ever KNOWING (This side of heaven) it falls (for me) into the angels dancing on the head of a pin thing.

[Elsie]

LOL. Sorry for using such graphically blunt language, but I think it accurately describes my past.

That's what the Book says...

John 3:18 New International Version

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

[MHGinTN]

Here is the Young's Literal translation:

John 3:14-18

14 “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

[Elsie]

“He who believes in Him is not judged;

I think this is where Christians get the idea that they will NOT be at the GWT judgement.

[MHGinTN]

ALL will be there, we’re just going to be their as observers, witnesses, the praise choir.

[imardmd1]

Here is the Young's Literal translation:

That's an interesting one. But it cannot be a translation, because it changes cases and conjugation from that present in the text, and thus becomes an interpretation; yes, literal, but an nevertheless what the reworder does to it makes it not precise, not a translation.

I would not rely on it as a spiritual guide, because the Critical Text is its basis, and even then only says what the interpreter decides to have it say.

But thanks for posting this, so we can see another example of what it means to introduce a diffidence not present in the certainty of salvation by faith alone.

[Elsie]

ALL will be there, we’re just going to be their as observers, witnesses, the praise choir.

 

 

HMMMmmm...

 

 

 

 

Daniel 12:1-2
 “At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.     Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

 

 

 

Revelation 20:11-15
"Then I saw a great White Throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.

 

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and THE BOOKS WERE OPENED.

Another book was opened WHICH IS THE BOOK OF LIFE.

 

The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books.

The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them,

and each person was judged according to their works. 

 

Then death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is the second death.

If anyone's name was not found written IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

 

 

[MHGinTN]

Are you a member of the Bride of Christ?

Go to Ref 4:1 the Bride is called to Heaven BEFORE the Tribulation. Those born from above are passed from judgment unto life eternal ... my tagline might help ... maybe.

[imardmd1]

No truly regenerated believer-disciple-saint of the church age. whose name was already entered into the Book of Life at the moment God saved him/her, will have to endure re-examination at this Rev. 20 GWT judgment.

All of them, all, were judged in Him at the Cross, and their works were already reviewed for retention or destruction at the Bema Seat of Christ.

After that first resurrection/judgment, they will have been reigning with Him in their never-dying new flesh-and-bone bodies for the duration of the Millennium of years that precedes the second resurrection/GWT judgment event.

Did you think otherwise? Why the "Hmmm" for MHG's assertion?

[redleghunter]

>>Ditto on the Byzantine. Nice analysis.<<

Indeed. I just looked at my electronic copy of the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchal English NT translation (keep a copy for moments like these). It follows the TR quite closely. There are footnotes (bracketed numbers below which point out the CT differences.

14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, likewise, the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15so that everyone believing in him should not perish but[ 1044] have eternal life. 16Indeed, God so loved the world that he gave his uniquely-begotten[ 1045] Son, so that everyone who believes[ 1046] in him should not perish but have eternal life.

[Springfield Reformer]

Hey bro. Good to hear from you again. Yep, TR and Byz are great texts. But no hardcopy for . All my Greek are belong to digital (Logos, e-Sword). :)

Peace,

SR

[redleghunter]

Thanks for all the great interaction on this thread. Learning a bunch by God’s Grace.

[Elsie]

Are you a member of the Bride of Christ?

I can't show you any card; like a Worthy Mormon has a VALID Temple Recommend; that'll get him/her into the highest level of LDS heaven.

I have; however; made a public declaration that I am relying fully on the works of Jesus Christ and Him alone to attain my salvation.

I believe in the Word that has been assembled long ago and trust in it rather than things that have been added later.

I fully expect to be one of the Dead-in-Christ that arises from my tomb at the last trump (wow!) just as the Book indicates.

It is appointed unto man once to die; and after that; Judgement
Hebrews 9:27

Sounds mighty universal to me.

[Elsie]

Did you think otherwise?
It's not what reading the Book reveals to me.

Why the "Hmmm" for MHG's assertion?

THIS? ...we’re just going to be their as observers, witnesses, the praise choir.

The FACT that there are NONE of those things found in the Scriptures I've posted.

If you have any verses that seem to indicate otherwise; let's look at them.

[Elsie]

Go to Ref 4:1 the Bride is called to Heaven BEFORE the Tribulation.

HUH??

Revelation 4:1 NIV

 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.”

[Elsie]

All of them, all, were judged in Him at the Cross, and their works were already reviewed for retention or destruction at the Bema Seat of Christ.

HMMMmmm...

[Elsie]

If we don’t watch it; we Prots will get into a furball fight over something that has NOTHING to do with salvation and our FR Catholic friends will slither away; unnoticed; in the accompanying ruckus.

[imardmd1]

1) The upshot of what I asserted in #1569 is that true church-age believers will not be judged st the GWT. Thus my question to you was:

imardmd1: Did you think otherwise?

To which here in #1574 your reply is:

Elsie: It's not what reading the Book reveals to me.

For the question I asked, the definitive answer is simply:

(a) "Yes" ; or
(b)"No."

The answer you gave is evasive and irresponsive, and I don't feel like playing cat and mouse. So please, would you just say "Yes" or "No" and leave it at that?

(2) From MHG's #1565 one would correctly infer that he implies that spiritually reborn followers of Christ will not be judged at the GWT event. From your responses to that, I assumed that you might like to prove otherwise; but IN FACT, since none of the Scriptures you cited contradict MHG's assertion, that is why I asked:

imardmd1: Why the "Hmmm" for MHG's assertion?

Instead of replying with Scripture that does irrefutably contradict MHG's thesis, you've tried to put the onus on me to amplify MHG's contention, by insisting in #1567:

Elsie: If you have any verses that seem to indicate otherwise; let's look at them.

Otherwise than . . .? I don't know for sure what your position is, so I'm not going to accept that challenge just yet. And why? Let me take a guess, surmising that the backstory is that someone from a Wesleyan background and subscribing to it has the doctrinal positions that:

(a) Like the RCC, salvation through "belief" in Jesus is not a "done" thing; you can lose your salvation.
(b) That the way God has dealt with mankind through dispensational theology is incorrect.
(c) There is no such thing as a premillennial snatching-away of Jesus' church before a period of tribulation never seen before on earth.
(d) That Jesus' judgment of believers and the GWT judgment of resurrected dead ones are one and the same--that they coincide.
(e) That the GWT determines whether one goes to Heaven or Hell.
(f) Eternal life or eternal torment (if such a thing exists) begins at the GWT, not before.
(g) Death prevails upon all humans until GWT.
(h) A believer does not go to Hell, but is preserved by "soul sleep" until GWT.
(i) At GWT, every human will be resurrected and their soul/spirit fragment be rejoined to a body fragment for the judgment.
(j) Only then will one having supposed him/ferself a Christian come to know whether or not his/her name has been entered in the Book of Life.

Now, is at least part, if not all, of this your idea of truth? (asseverating only either "yes" or "no" on this will do, for the moment).

The ball is now in your court, Els. One simple, plain, conclusive one-word answer to each these two questions, OK?

Then maybe we can continue the exchange. But, let me advise you ahead of time: having been raised as a Methodist minister's son, and knowing the drift of Wesleyan theology and its outcome, no one will ever convince me to go back to it, nor to its reworked/reformed Episcopalian/Anglican/Catholic doctrinal creedal basis. That would be a great, and perhaps damning, mistake.

[imardmd1]

Els, I am not a Protestant (who subscribes to the Apostles creed that includes an earthly catholic church). I am not of the Orthodoxen, that believes an orthodox church polity is an episcopacy. I am not even a Baptist, in the sense of asservating that each local assembly must have an ordained "Pastor" as the only Scripture-certified teacher-officer of the flock, and deacons as his ordained ministers. That is, I do not believe in any kind of churchianity that places the denomination above and between the participant and his God.

It would be good to keep that in mind. My belief in organization of Scripture-authorized mutually supporting consituents is that of an independent autonomous New Testament assembly of spirit-born believer-disciple-priests and Friends of the Lord and Christ Jesus; whose government is by a plurality of spiritually mature elders; whose ordinances are:

(1) Remembering the Lord Jesus according to partaking of his pre-crucifixion Supper by assembling every Lord's Day for it,

(2) entering into the fellowship by publicly professing Jesus as Savior and Lord in the induction ritual of water immersion as the external symbol of commitment,

(3) preaching and teaching the Gospel of Jesus for the purpose of recruiting and maintaining true disciples, and

(4) sovereignly preferring one another over self and the world, as Jesus did with His disciples, so that the world may recognize them (us) as such.

The vision I have is that entry into this state is by faith alone in the Person, Work, and Lordship of Jesus alone, with the True Written Word of God as its singular and definitive authority. Its works will be for each individual to be a faithful and accountable steward of such portion of the Father's earthly estate as has been committed to his/her care.

I'm willing to participate in any discussion that shows effective results in rejecting any antichristian antiscriptural endeavor to undercut the making and maintaining of the Lord and His militant forces, furball or not. But I'm not particularly desirous of getting one started by scratching and hissing, either, nor by venturing out as some kind of Providentially supplied comedian.

[Elsie]

That was evasive?

I guess my postings of ALL being judged at the GWT wasn't clear enough yes or no.

...true church-age believers will not be judged st the GWT

I disagree.