I find that the more I read the bible, the less I focus on the thing called “the trinity”. Jesus is fully God in the flesh. Without the flesh, there is no Jesus. He was never “something else” before he was Jesus. He has always been Jesus. In our reality, he has a beginning. In eternity he does not. He is the dwelling place of the holy spirit when he is here. When he is not here, he is not. This is why he had to leave for the holy spirit to do His work here.
Or something like that.
And when he says, “I and the father are one” I see it a bit like when I say I and my wife are one.
I’ll ask my Father when I get home ....
Is your wife invisible? Nicea was wrong.
-—(Jesus) He is the dwelling place of the holy spirit when he is here. When he is not here, he is not. This is why he had to leave for the holy spirit to do His work here.-—
Interesting thought...that part that the HS only resided in Christ when he was incarnate...
Not real sure that is solid theology...
I need to do a little research...
“And when he says, “I and the father are one” I see it a bit like when I say I and my wife are one.”
It’s a bit different. When husband and wife become one the two souls, one representing the masculine and one the feminine merge together with Love to use each other as a crutch to become one in the eyes of God. However it is better to remain single and become whole within oneself.
As to the “I and the father are one” that is a bit different. Especially when Jesus adds John 10:38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”....John 14:20 On that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you. and....John 17:21 that they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
The first time Jesus says “My Father and I are One” is after he came through the dark night of the soul and temptations in the wilderness.
People are using the wrong model to understand these scriptures. Imagine Russian Nesting Dolls where we are the little doll in the middle, Jesus is a larger doll that we exist within, and God is the largest doll that we all exist within. In each situation all dolls exist within the largest doll and at the same time, the contents of the largest doll exist within all other dolls, including us. That is the structure of us with Jesus and God. (It is also the reason that you cannot get to God except by going through the doll between us and God which represents Jesus in the model.)
Bottom line is, as we grow spiritually, our consciousness expands to a higher awareness just as Jesus’ did in the wilderness. I communicate directly with Jesus every day in meditation and prayer. His complete Love described as the wonderful “treasure buried in the field” is there for us always, every day at all times.
This is also the reason for Matthew 24:25 in that the Messiah will be seen in the East and the West at the same time as we exist within Jesus. Just as blood flows within our bodies, the Holy Spirit is the consciousness of God that flows within Jesus and us if we are in Him. This is also why blasphemy or denial of the Holy Spirit is the greatest sin, as to do so you will never find Jesus or Our Father.
When a person is born of the spirit, they begin to perceive reality directly from their soul or spirit and are not limited to the five senses of the physical body. This is how you see and experience Jesus daily.
I pray that my words do not confuse as I am describing my own experiences rather than theorizing an interpretive meaning of scriptures from theory.
By the way, the reason that LOVE is so critically important is that LOVE is the glue that holds the soul together so it can grow to higher levels. It is as the cement in a building as without it a higher building would collapse quickly when shaken. The same is true when a soul is shaken by life’s experiences.
Wrong!
Jesus is God. God is Spirit. Ergo Jesus is Spirit. You were spirit. God knew you before the foundation of the world.( you were spirit before birth) God put you in your mothers womb. You became flesh when you were conceived.
Jesus was "put" in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit to receive His fleshly body. Our bodies are described as "tent's, tabernacles, houses, temple's, vessels, ect. It is a place for our Spirit to be housed. There are many sightings of Jesus before Jesus. Melchizedek being one. He has no beginning and no end, he was the High Priest of God, before there were priests. He was the King of peace( Salem and other descriptors.) The Angel of the Lord ( capital "A") came to Gideon and Abraham. When you have an Angel say take off your shoes, you are on holy ground, that is Jesus. Angels that aren't Jesus even tell men NOT to bow to them. Angels that are seen by men have bodies, but I hesitate to call a glorified body "flesh". Flesh dies. Flesh is for Earth Dwellers. Jesus was flesh for 33 years and received a new glorified body. It was the same body seen on Mt of Transfiguration. I believe the Transfigured body is the Body he has in Heaven since the beginning. It does things flesh can't do,....like change into light.
“Without the flesh, there is no Jesus.”
False. ONCE a Jesus of flesh came into being (at His conception), that meant there never can be a time without Jesus, but even without flesh Jesus is forever Jesus. When Jesus died He really died. He was separated from His flesh. His soul did not die, however. He had a human soul because that belongs to everyone of flesh and the Son of God had taken on flesh in the Incarnation. Thus, for those three days His cold body was in the tomb, His soul was very much alive and Jesus was still entirely Jesus in His soul.