Posted on 12/20/2016 8:59:19 AM PST by Salvation
As we continue to await the fast-approaching Feast of Holy Christmas, it is good to ponder some aspects of the Incarnation. Among the questions for us to consider is why it was the Son, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, that became incarnate, rather than the Father or the Holy Spirit.
Most people have never even thought of this question let alone sought to answer it. God could have chosen many different ways to save us; He chose to act as He did not because it was required, but because it was fitting. It falls to us to ponder, using Scripture and our own reason, why God’s chosen way was fitting, and what we can learn from this.
As always, St. Thomas Aquinas provides rich resources for us. I present below his teaching from the Summa Theologica (part III, question 3, article 8) in bold, italics; my poor commentary appears in red text. St. Thomas proposed four reasons as to why it was most fitting for the Son to become incarnate.
I. First, on the part of the union; for such as are similar are fittingly united. Now the Person of the Son, Who is the Word of God, has a certain common agreement with all creatures, because the word of the craftsman, i.e. his concept, is an exemplar likeness of whatever is made by him. Hence the Word of God, Who is His eternal concept, is the exemplar likeness of all creatures. … for the craftsman by the intelligible form of his art, whereby he fashioned his handiwork, restores it when it has fallen into ruin.
When the Father created all things, he uttered a Word: (i.e., Let there be light). Thus He creates through His Word (the Logos), and the Word of God is Christ. Therefore, in speaking creation into existence by the Logos, God impresses a kind of “logike” (logic) on all things.
In this way the Son, the Logos, has a “certain common agreement with all creatures,” who bear something of logic or likeness to Him. If this be so, then, as St. Thomas reasons, God the Father would best repair His creation by the same Word through whom He first created it.
II. Moreover … Man is perfected in wisdom (which is his proper perfection, as he is rational) by participating the Word of God, as the disciple is instructed by receiving the word of his master. Hence it is said (Sirach 1:5): “The Word of God on high is the fountain of wisdom.” And hence for the consummate perfection of man it was fitting that the very Word of God should be personally united to human nature.
While it is true that Original Sin affected our bodily integrity, perhaps our greatest wound was the darkening of our intellect, which was (and is) our greatest gift, the distinguishing characteristic between us and brute animals. So it is especially fitting that the Word of God, who is also the Wisdom of God, should be joined to our nature and bring healing to us in this way.
St. Paul writes, Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God (Rom 12:2). Even human words can instruct; all the more, then, can the Word of God made Flesh enlighten and heal us. This shows forth the fittingness that the Word, the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity, should become flesh.
III. The reason of this fitness [of the Second Person becoming flesh] may [also] be taken from the end of the union, which is … the heavenly inheritance, which is bestowed only on sons, according to Romans 8:17: “If sons, heirs also.” Hence it was fitting that by Him Who is the natural Son, men should share this likeness of sonship by adoption, as the Apostle says in the same chapter (Romans 8:29): “For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of His Son.”
In other words, because it is sons who inherit, it is fitting that He who is Son by nature should become incarnate. And thus shall we, conformed to His image as sons through our adoption and membership in His Body, also inherit the Kingdom and glory through the healing He effects in us.
IV. [Further], the reason for this fitness may be taken from the sin of our first parent, for which Incarnation supplied the remedy. For the first man sinned by seeking knowledge, as is plain from the words of the serpent, promising to man the knowledge of good and evil. Hence it was fitting that by the Word of true knowledge man might be led back to God, having wandered from God through an inordinate thirst for knowledge.
In grasping inordinately for the wrong kind of knowledge (the knowledge of evil) and in insisting on his own right to decide what was good and what was evil, Adam sinned. In and of itself, seeking knowledge is good; it was the object that was disordered (and thus forbidden). Because humans have this thirst to know (of itself good), all the more reason that God should offer us the true Word and Wisdom of God: the Son.
For the Word to become flesh is thus more fitting. In effect, God the Father says, “Let me offer you what you were really seeking, but sought inordinately.” For this reason, the Son, who is the Word, who is Truth itself, becomes incarnate.
You initially replied to ‘Salvation’, whose posting made no mention of the Nicene creed. As to the posters you contend don’t approve of said creed, I would suggest that you take them to task.
My disagreement with the trinitarian Nicene creed is principly it’s statements that don’t do a very good job of defining God, as I make mention in post #31.
Adulery and or abandonment involved? If your wife took off it’s on her not you.
We are all going to screw up and slip up. Becomes a matter of repentance, perspective, humility and holding fast to the Word.
“We are all going to screw up and slip up. Becomes a matter of repentance, perspective, humility and holding fast to the Word.”
Since I learned to laugh at my screw ups in life and learned to laugh at myself, I have never run out of humor.
Things happen for me in spite of me, not because of me!!!
I don’t think there’s an answer to the question, either. Not a typical answer, anyway.
I would say that “what transpired is perfection”. Therefore, it had to happen that way.
Yes, but at 43 I married a 43 year old divorced woman.
On a side note, I tried desperately to reconcile the marriage, including meetings with her and me and the elders of our fairly large church. She would have none of it. So one day I prayed that if one would not reconcile, would he free the other. Two weeks later It hit me that I had zero feeling for her. A week later I went to my high school reunion and met my future wife. Both of us were in the middle of a divorce at that time and when both were final, we married.
Our entire courtship was 850 emails, $3,500 in phone calls and one visit from her midwestern state, during which I proposed. We’ve been married for 18 + years in what I can only describe as a fairytail “happily ever after” with no end in sight.
God has blessed us more than I could even imagine. He’s also blessed us with three genuine miracles. Yet I married a divorced woman...
Am I living in sin?
“Am I saved? If not, is there something more I must do to be saved? Have I committed an unforgivable sin?”
Remember our model prayer... Father forgive us our sins as we forgive those who have sinned against us....
My experience is that the greatest obstacle to our receiving forgiveness of our sins is our continued judgement of others. In order to receive forgiveness we must also give it.
Remember Jesus’ words... I am here to save, not to judge.
You are correct to think outside of time. I'm teaching right now about the spiritual world vs the fleshly world. We look at reality as being what we see and feel, but in God's world, He is reality.
When God speaks, He speaks Truth and reality. You can be laying on a slab, dead as a mackrel with 7 doctors all agreeing and the machines are now turned off, and Jesus enter the room and say, "Rise and walk" and you will indeed rise and walk. Were the doctors wrong? Were they lying? NO, Jesus is Truth. We live in a supernatural world that we can't see without the Holy Spirit. When Jesus enters the room, scientist seem foolish. The things they count on mean nothing in the Spirit world.
The point of the whole thread was why did Jesus have to be the one that put on flesh and died on the cross. To start with we must know that there is no difference between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They tell us over and over they are One, but speak as though they were separate. I have a voice in my head right now telling me what to type, but it's still me. I can carry on a conversation about what I should do this afternoon, but it's still me. Problems come when a demon tells me to do something against the Spirit that lives in me and I agree with him over the Spirit. The kind of perfection God is looking for is to have our Holy Spirit agree with Him and have control of our flesh and only do and think what we should do. Then we are "Christ like". God has no use for flesh in the Spirit world and He is Spirit according to Scripture. When He came to pay our sin price, he had to take on our form to pay it. Jesus was fully man and fully God while here.
In the sacrificial world, the animal took upon themselves our sin when it was transferred to them by the priest and they were killed. That bought us another year until the sin price was paid again. Jesus transferred our sin to Himself and was murdered to pay for our sin once and for all time. The problem before Jesus was we had no pure sacrifice. No one was good, no not one. This was the principle behind throwing babies into the fires of Baal or Moloch. What can be more innocent than a baby? The story of Abraham and Issac demonstrated that God would have to provide His own Lamb to redeem His people. Jesus was our only hope. Jesus, the I Am, came from His throne to Mary and received His body from her. This fulfilled God's promise that Satan would bruise His heel, but He would bruise his head. Stan's time is coming and the blow will be from the right hand of Jesus on His white horse.
My post was to remind that Jesus was only flesh for 33 years. Flesh cannot go to heaven. Flesh is for earth dwellers. Do a word search on "earth dwellers" in Scripture and you might find it interesting.
The Spirit world is real reality for saved people. We are not from here. We are aliens in and alien land. What we are doing when we take communion with God is recognizing the sacrifice of the Son of Man, Jesus. The Son of God was always there, but to get this ordeal done, He had to lay down His flesh, or the Son of Man. Sons of Men CANNOT enter heaven. Only Sons of God can enter in. We have been given the right to become Sons of God by partaking in the death of Jesus.
When you hear the argument about "Who killed Jesus, the Romans or the Jews?", You know they are lost because they don't understand that No one takes The life of Jesus, but Jesus laid it down for us. If you had no part in the death of Jesus, then you are self Righteous and can stand in judgement without Him. You won't make it. Our righteousness is as filthy rags to God.
We needed a perfect man to die for our sins and only God could provide that sacrifice, so Jesus took on a man suit and went to the cross for His bride. Now we can go to Him and be like Him for we will see Him as He is. No flesh.
You may have noticed from my comments that I have a problem with some of Paul’s statements, especially about women as his prior role as a legalistic Pharacitic Jew is coming through Paul’s words.
My experience is that the greatest obstacle to our receiving forgiveness of our sins is our continued judgement of others. In order to receive forgiveness we must also give it.
Interestingly, in one translation it says, and I paraphrase, “father, forgive us our sins since we forgive those that sin against us.”
I honestly don’t know if it is true or not, but I’ve heard that a friend of C. S. Lewis was visited by him after his death. The story is that Lewis appeared in a leather chair in the mans office and said these four words: It’s not that hard.
Now, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (as with the claims you have made here), but sometimes they do give a person pause and a desire to search the scripture.
I was not a Bible Believer prior to my own physical death experience and gaining these abilities. They have only developed and increased my Love for God and acceptance of Jesus as my Savior. For me, the Bible is experientially true.
And on a related note:
God foreknew that Adam and Eve would disobey Him, yet he created them anyway. My take is that his puting them in the garden and forbidding them to eat of the tree is the equivalent of you or me taking our talking pet fox and making him a nice nest in our henhouse and telling him to enjoy himself but don’t touch the chickens.
i.e. God somehow created all of this for a situation where they would eat and gain knowledge of good and evil, and after a few thousand years of disobedience and teaching mankind about His nature, finally bring it all to an end, bringing with him the sheep and killing all the goats.
There is something going on that we don’t know about. ;-)
(as with the claims you have made here)
As a scientist, I too am a skeptic. To add insult to injury, my wife is an MD psychiatrist who has been on the faculty of a major medical school in the U.S. for the past 27 years.
I’ve often joked that she never has to divorce me, she can just have me committed.
OK. Now I get it.
I’ve had one healing miracle and rarely share it, and won’t now. But I will say that the first person I did share it with described the exact same sort of “odd situations” that accompanied his experience regarding the healing of a victim of a motorcyclist that was “certainly” going to die.
It was that both of our stories shared a similar just plain weird attribute that, well, you have to actually experience to understand. Both of us knew exactly what the other one was talking about.
LOL... Notice the feeling you are experiencing in your chest right now.... Someone upstairs has an excellent sense of humor...
I must run..
Blessings to you on your journey.
I actually see god in every single thing, living or not. I’ll sometimes look at a leaf and marvel at his crativity, and at the qualities within the leaf that I could not see with a high power microscope. But these amazing attributes are a part of every exceedingly simple part of creation. Because it is all we have known since birth, we often don’t appreciate it.
And yet it is a shadow of the truly real eternity that awaits. I see this world almost as though it is just a super real “video game” and I occupy this “virtual body”.
Of course, it’s a bit more serious than a game, but you get my drift. It is, as the bible says, a mist.
“Without the flesh, there is no Jesus.”
False. ONCE a Jesus of flesh came into being (at His conception), that meant there never can be a time without Jesus, but even without flesh Jesus is forever Jesus. When Jesus died He really died. He was separated from His flesh. His soul did not die, however. He had a human soul because that belongs to everyone of flesh and the Son of God had taken on flesh in the Incarnation. Thus, for those three days His cold body was in the tomb, His soul was very much alive and Jesus was still entirely Jesus in His soul.
Science is merely the process of gaining an understanding of how God works (most of the time)
There is no such thing as a miracle, it is merely science that we currently do not understand.
A truth at one level of understanding is not necessarily a truth at a higher level of understanding.
Everything is God. As you said, even the rocks and trees are God. I too see God in everything. That is a bit more difficult to explain, but easy to demonstrate as everything visible and invisible, physical and intangible is merely consciousness.
I believe Jesus was in the furnace with the three boys. I believe it was Jesus that dislocated Jacob’s hip.
I believe that the only incarnation of God in human flesh is Jesus.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.