Posted on 12/20/2016 8:59:19 AM PST by Salvation
As we continue to await the fast-approaching Feast of Holy Christmas, it is good to ponder some aspects of the Incarnation. Among the questions for us to consider is why it was the Son, the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, that became incarnate, rather than the Father or the Holy Spirit.
Most people have never even thought of this question let alone sought to answer it. God could have chosen many different ways to save us; He chose to act as He did not because it was required, but because it was fitting. It falls to us to ponder, using Scripture and our own reason, why God’s chosen way was fitting, and what we can learn from this.
As always, St. Thomas Aquinas provides rich resources for us. I present below his teaching from the Summa Theologica (part III, question 3, article 8) in bold, italics; my poor commentary appears in red text. St. Thomas proposed four reasons as to why it was most fitting for the Son to become incarnate.
I. First, on the part of the union; for such as are similar are fittingly united. Now the Person of the Son, Who is the Word of God, has a certain common agreement with all creatures, because the word of the craftsman, i.e. his concept, is an exemplar likeness of whatever is made by him. Hence the Word of God, Who is His eternal concept, is the exemplar likeness of all creatures. … for the craftsman by the intelligible form of his art, whereby he fashioned his handiwork, restores it when it has fallen into ruin.
When the Father created all things, he uttered a Word: (i.e., Let there be light). Thus He creates through His Word (the Logos), and the Word of God is Christ. Therefore, in speaking creation into existence by the Logos, God impresses a kind of “logike” (logic) on all things.
In this way the Son, the Logos, has a “certain common agreement with all creatures,” who bear something of logic or likeness to Him. If this be so, then, as St. Thomas reasons, God the Father would best repair His creation by the same Word through whom He first created it.
II. Moreover … Man is perfected in wisdom (which is his proper perfection, as he is rational) by participating the Word of God, as the disciple is instructed by receiving the word of his master. Hence it is said (Sirach 1:5): “The Word of God on high is the fountain of wisdom.” And hence for the consummate perfection of man it was fitting that the very Word of God should be personally united to human nature.
While it is true that Original Sin affected our bodily integrity, perhaps our greatest wound was the darkening of our intellect, which was (and is) our greatest gift, the distinguishing characteristic between us and brute animals. So it is especially fitting that the Word of God, who is also the Wisdom of God, should be joined to our nature and bring healing to us in this way.
St. Paul writes, Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God (Rom 12:2). Even human words can instruct; all the more, then, can the Word of God made Flesh enlighten and heal us. This shows forth the fittingness that the Word, the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity, should become flesh.
III. The reason of this fitness [of the Second Person becoming flesh] may [also] be taken from the end of the union, which is … the heavenly inheritance, which is bestowed only on sons, according to Romans 8:17: “If sons, heirs also.” Hence it was fitting that by Him Who is the natural Son, men should share this likeness of sonship by adoption, as the Apostle says in the same chapter (Romans 8:29): “For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of His Son.”
In other words, because it is sons who inherit, it is fitting that He who is Son by nature should become incarnate. And thus shall we, conformed to His image as sons through our adoption and membership in His Body, also inherit the Kingdom and glory through the healing He effects in us.
IV. [Further], the reason for this fitness may be taken from the sin of our first parent, for which Incarnation supplied the remedy. For the first man sinned by seeking knowledge, as is plain from the words of the serpent, promising to man the knowledge of good and evil. Hence it was fitting that by the Word of true knowledge man might be led back to God, having wandered from God through an inordinate thirst for knowledge.
In grasping inordinately for the wrong kind of knowledge (the knowledge of evil) and in insisting on his own right to decide what was good and what was evil, Adam sinned. In and of itself, seeking knowledge is good; it was the object that was disordered (and thus forbidden). Because humans have this thirst to know (of itself good), all the more reason that God should offer us the true Word and Wisdom of God: the Son.
For the Word to become flesh is thus more fitting. In effect, God the Father says, “Let me offer you what you were really seeking, but sought inordinately.” For this reason, the Son, who is the Word, who is Truth itself, becomes incarnate.
Actually, as I read your post, yours is the closest any other human being has come to describing it as I see it.
Nicely done!
Wrong!
Jesus is God. God is Spirit. Ergo Jesus is Spirit. You were spirit. God knew you before the foundation of the world.( you were spirit before birth) God put you in your mothers womb. You became flesh when you were conceived.
Jesus was "put" in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit to receive His fleshly body. Our bodies are described as "tent's, tabernacles, houses, temple's, vessels, ect. It is a place for our Spirit to be housed. There are many sightings of Jesus before Jesus. Melchizedek being one. He has no beginning and no end, he was the High Priest of God, before there were priests. He was the King of peace( Salem and other descriptors.) The Angel of the Lord ( capital "A") came to Gideon and Abraham. When you have an Angel say take off your shoes, you are on holy ground, that is Jesus. Angels that aren't Jesus even tell men NOT to bow to them. Angels that are seen by men have bodies, but I hesitate to call a glorified body "flesh". Flesh dies. Flesh is for Earth Dwellers. Jesus was flesh for 33 years and received a new glorified body. It was the same body seen on Mt of Transfiguration. I believe the Transfigured body is the Body he has in Heaven since the beginning. It does things flesh can't do,....like change into light.
My position has to do with how I see time outside of the creation in which we live. I like to put it this way: Time is a current in an ocean called eternity.
Jesus said that before the world was created, “I am.”
I’m not sure we disagree. I think we are just trying to come up with different ways of describing something neither of us has the capacity to understand. We are like two blind men trying to describe red.
What are they saying that is heretical?
All thanks and compliments go upward within yourself.
We are on the threshold of the greatest time to be alive on this earth. It may be a bit rough but the end result will be beyond words. I call it the “Springtime of Soul Growth.”
Problem is, the field will be plowed and cause much turmoil in order to get rid of the old debris and make room for the new growth to sprout. i.e. you can’t put new wine in an old wineskin... or we have no room for God when we are full of ourselves.
So true.
I came across a meme both in church sunday and then here at freerepublic that gave me pause. That is, it was about “counting the cost” of being a Christian and the diligent work required to stay the course.
Yet salvation is described as a free gift.
I have to keep going back to the concept that, as a Christian, I don’t strive to do good to keep my salvation, since if that is even possible, then I am saved by my own works.
Rather, I’m saved, regardless of how good I am. However, 1 Cor 3: 10-15 kicks in.
That reply would make a religious Saul Alinsky proud, imo.
In you have nothing constructive to offer to the debate, then why reply at all?
“Rather, I’m saved, regardless of how good I am.”
God selects His biggest screw ups for His most important work...
Look at Moses as he was a murderer before God said, “You will lead my people out of Egypt.”
Or Saul who was persecuting and killing Christians before he became Paul, the greatest evangelist in the New Testament era....
I guess there is hope for me after all!!!
“However, 1 Cor 3: 10-15 kicks in”
Thank you for reminding me of that one. It is very accurate.
In our soul, sin creates wounds that become obstacles to Love. (thus we must Love our neighbor and go and resolve any obstacles to Love with them before we go and worship.)
Just as LOVE is the glue that holds our soul together, holes in our soul where Love do not exist creates darkness within us and weakens our foundation.
Higher levels of consciousness such as Jesus and God will always be perceived as “LIGHT” from a lower level. (same thing is true of electrons in atomic theory as described by Neals Bohr) This is due to the inherent energy in the higher consciousness. When a lower consciousness thought such as fear or anger is placed in this higher consciousness, it bursts into flames and is transmutation process gives off fire and heat. (It’s the reason why giving a prayerful blessing to an evil person is like placing hot coals upon their heads.. (I forget the scripture reference) and the reason the three purified souls were not harmed when thrown into the fire while the guards were killed in the OT)
I actually see this when a prayerful healing takes place. It often looks like a bug flying into one of those bug zapper lights when the sparks fly.
There are many levels of Light or consciousness... angels are not as bright as the Holy Spirit which is not as bright as Jesus who is not as bright as God. When I see/feel the portal open up for a deceased person to cross over it is so bright and powerful that it gives me pure bliss beyond words.
Why do you reply to me? Are you offering something constructive to the thread?
One poster said that Nicea was wrong, another "tended" to agree. The question was silly -- like asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin -- and the heretics started coming out of the closet.
Do you not agree that those who claim that the Nicene Creed is wrong can properly be labeled as heretics?
Thank you for posting that thought provoking question.
I have often thought it odd how the ‘deep thinkers’ of trinitarianism credit God the Father for getting the ball rolling, so to speak, and then goes practically unheard of until the Son of God is brought forth. At which time the Father is credited with powering the Son during his first earthly visitation. Then the Son ascends, takes the scepter, and the Father once again slips off to obscurity.
The Son is the image of the invisible God. Think on that....
God is invisible. Always has been, and always will be.
God is a Spirit. Always has been, and always will be.
The Son is God the Father’s perfect physical expression of himself to a physical world.
Peter’s testimony to the Jews in Acts 2, and to Cornelius in Acts 10, are as good of a witness as you’ll find. I think they’re awesome!
You are saying you physically see it?
What about the Christian guy I know of that went on a softball team trip to Yakima and while carousing with the rest of the team they were at a pizza place where there was this drop dead gorgious girl that all the guys were gawking at.
Except him. He loved his wife and ignored this woman.
In the end, he slept with her that night. Apparently his initial lack of interest is what made him the desirable conquest to this woman.
As soon as he met his wife at Seatac airport after the trip, he told her what happened and apologized. I assume they are still married to this day.
What he did was “willful”. Is he lost?
I guess the real question is, is there really an end to seven times seventy?
Quite often, yes. The same is true when a pastor is being moved by the Holy Spirit. I see the connection follow them around as they move about. It’s easy to spot the fakes....
I feel it too. It is unmistakable.
I also found that I know the thoughts of people around me and their stored memories of their life all the way back to their conception. If I have a person closes their eyes and stands 15 feet from me, I say nothing and just reach out and push/pull their heavy stored thoughts in their soul and it knocks them off their feet. It’s easy to tell what a person’s mother thought of their father when they were in their mother’s womb no matter what age they are now. When viewed from a higher level of consciousness the anatomy & physiology of the human soul is physical just as the physical body is to everyone. Reality is a function of the level of consciousness from which we view it. It really is that simple. The Tower of Babel concept works on the same various levels of consciousness. It’s the reason that my Father’s Mansion has many rooms.
I am a neuroscientist. I retired as a tax law professor at a major university to follow psychological and neuroscience research to understand how this all works. It’s easy to demonstrate and explain.
Hebrews 10:26-31 is very true...
It ties right back to and supports 1 Cor 3: 10-15 as the judgement is automatic in that if you are impure, you cannot stand to be near the Light of God that creates the “fire” while it is cleansing souls.
The great lie told by satan is that the “fire will kill you.” Many souls are even afraid of the fire... But the greatest fire is in Heaven where sin cannot exist. To those who are pure, they do not perceive it as fire, but only as Light. Even the lower levels of the Holy Spirit create fear in anyone holding onto sin.
The old custom of burning witches at the stake was a test as if they were full of the Holy Spirit the fire would not harm them.
What about my case, where my wife of 20 years divorced me 19 years ago and I met a woman who was divorced. I’ve now been married to her for 18 years. I pray for forgiveness of sins and accept His free gift.
Am I saved? If not, is there something more I must do to be saved? Have I committed an unforgivable sin?
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