Posted on 11/28/2016 8:33:34 PM PST by ebb tide
"Proselytism among Christians, therefore, in itself, is a grave sin,” said Pope Francis.
The journalist then asked, “Why?”
“Because it contradicts the very dynamic of how to become and to remain Christian,” he said. “The Church is not a soccer team that goes around seeking fans.”
It would be hard to conceive of a more superficial, more puerile, remark on relations with other Christian denominations. How much lower can the papacy sink - in terms of both cheap jibes that demean and dishonor the supreme office of Christ's Vicar on earth (lambasting an opposing position with a crude straw-man caricature that would discredit a junior high schooler) and outright heterodoxy?
The American left is currently urging the Electoral College to hand the White House to Hillary on the grounds that Trump is "manifestly unfit to be President". Dare we hope that the scarlet-clad Eminences of the Church's own Electoral College will soon declare Francis "manifestly unfit to be Pope"?
I mean . . . Trying to help non-Catholic Christians, by reasoned argument and apologetics, to recognize and embrace the fullness of revealed truth - and for Francis, that certainly qualifies as "proselytism" - is now to be condemned as sin? And indeed, grave sin? Even though Vatican Council II (to which the Holy Father professes his full adherence) clearly restates that all have a moral duty to seek, embrace and hold fast to this truth of the Catholic Church (cf. Dignitatis Humanae, #1)? Even though the Council (Lumen Gentium, #14) and the Catechism (#846) reaffirm the dogma "Outside the Church there is no salvation", explaining it to mean that those who recognize the Catholic Church as embodying the true religion, yet refuse to enter or remain in her, cannot be saved?
I myself am a convert from Presbyterianism. Prompted by the aforesaid conciliar teaching, I became a Catholic in order to save my soul. The Catholic faith I have professed now for 42 years is the most precious gift I have received. And now the head of Christ's Catholic Church on earth, no less, is telling me that those Catholics who by personal conversation and written argument helped persuade me to abandon my Protestant heresies and embrace the fullness of revealed truth were thereby committing grave sin? And he's justifying this excoriation of convert-seeking with a vapid "explanation" that explains nothing ("Because it contradicts the very dynamic of how to become and to remain Christian”)?
How many previous Successors of Peter must be rolling in their graves at such comments! This, coming from a pope, is . . . outrageous. Mind-boggling. Unspeakable. Incredible. The stuff of nightmare. It is calling good evil, and by implication, evil good. Sorry, I can't find adequate words here, so will simply give up seeking them and sign off.
The Great Commission???
Ugh....as a Catholic, this pope makes me hurl. A Pope on a Rope could do a better job.
>> “Proselytism among Christians, therefore, in itself, is a grave sin,” said Pope Francis.
Curious what preceded that statement, regardless of its absurdity.
“And now the head of Christ’s Catholic Church on earth, no less, is telling me that those Catholics who by personal conversation and written argument helped persuade me to abandon my Protestant heresies and embrace the fullness of revealed truth were thereby committing grave sin?”
As I have said in another thread I have been a believer and a Catholic all my life but there is nothing about this pope that....to me...is Catholic. I think he is a Manchurian Candidate and I wish there was a way to impeach him. He does NOT speak for me and I will not acknowledge him as pope (intentionally small “p”). He is a product of the “feel good” generation, I reject him!
Thank you.
The conflict in Northern Ireland during the late 20th century?
The dead . . . 3 or 4 thousand?
So, the writer believes Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, Episcopalians, Church of Christ, Disciples of Christ, the myriad of Evangelical and Protestant offshoots are all lost and going to hell? Really?
I think the Pope was right about something here. People who are already Christian believers shouldn't be seen as fertile ground for those like the author to try to "save their souls" by convincing them ONLY the Roman Catholic religion can do so for them and alone has the "fullness of the faith". That is just elitist thinking and contradicts the Catholic Catechism which states genuine Christians DO exist outside of Catholicism.
I was born into Catholicism but found the fullness of the faith outside of it by studying Holy Scripture and attending and fellowshipping with other believers in Evangelical non-Catholic denominations. There's nothing wrong with discussing apologetics and theological differences but I always thought it strange how some Catholics insist that Catholicism is the ONLY way to salvation. If someone is already a follower of Jesus Christ and professes the faith as the early creeds describe it, then there's no need to try to convert them over to Roman Catholicism. If someone has a desire to join, that's fine, but it certainly isn't the only way to "save my soul".
I would agree to an end to Proselytising — the worst groups are the loudest and the best lead by quiet example.
Yes, and so do I, and as the pre-conciliar Popes believed.
I'm not surprised. Apostates tend to defend each other as a defense mechanism.
Was St. John the Baptist loud?
He was beheaded for being loud.
Un-Christian, snobbish elitists are like that. Thankfully, Jesus knows His own and His own know Him and Him only do they follow. And He gives to them eternal life and they shall never perish or be plucked from His hands (John 10:27-30).
Hey, at least I’m not claiming to be a Roman Catholic while refusing to be subject to the Pope and rejecting Vatican II and what the current Catholic Catechism states. I think it sounds like the “apostate” label is a better fit for you!
I see your point, and I think that arguments and rivalries between Christians do not help the faith.
“The writer believes Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, Baptists, Episcopalians, Church of Christ, Disciples of Christ, the myriad of Evangelical and Protestant offshoots are all lost and going to hell?” Yes. And so do I. There are a million reasons, well, two million, supporting the conclusion that non-Catholics have a fragile connection to heaven. Would you like one, one hundred or one thousand reasons?
The anecdote for this is to actually teach Christianity in Catholic churches instead of liberation theology or the feel good psychology version of religion that he is trying to push.
Thanks for the link. “The Church exists only as an instrument to communicate to men God’s merciful design,” Pope Francis said. Interesting. This quote shows that Pope Francis has a superficial understanding of ecclesiology. I remember other experts saying how Pope Francis taught high school and seems to have a high school level of theology. Thus, it is sad how a doctor of the Church, Benedict XVI, was replaced by a sophist from high school.
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