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To: ebb tide
I mean . . . Trying to help non-Catholic Christians, by reasoned argument and apologetics, to recognize and embrace the fullness of revealed truth - and for Francis, that certainly qualifies as "proselytism" - is now to be condemned as sin? And indeed, grave sin? Even though Vatican Council II (to which the Holy Father professes his full adherence) clearly restates that all have a moral duty to seek, embrace and hold fast to this truth of the Catholic Church (cf. Dignitatis Humanae, #1)? Even though the Council (Lumen Gentium, #14) and the Catechism (#846) reaffirm the dogma "Outside the Church there is no salvation", explaining it to mean that those who recognize the Catholic Church as embodying the true religion, yet refuse to enter or remain in her, cannot be saved?
I myself am a convert from Presbyterianism. Prompted by the aforesaid conciliar teaching, I became a Catholic in order to save my soul. The Catholic faith I have professed now for 42 years is the most precious gift I have received. And now the head of Christ's Catholic Church on earth, no less, is telling me that those Catholics who by personal conversation and written argument helped persuade me to abandon my Protestant heresies and embrace the fullness of revealed truth were thereby committing grave sin? And he's justifying this excoriation of convert-seeking with a vapid "explanation" that explains nothing ("Because it contradicts the very dynamic of how to become and to remain Christian”)?

I think the Pope was right about something here. People who are already Christian believers shouldn't be seen as fertile ground for those like the author to try to "save their souls" by convincing them ONLY the Roman Catholic religion can do so for them and alone has the "fullness of the faith". That is just elitist thinking and contradicts the Catholic Catechism which states genuine Christians DO exist outside of Catholicism.

I was born into Catholicism but found the fullness of the faith outside of it by studying Holy Scripture and attending and fellowshipping with other believers in Evangelical non-Catholic denominations. There's nothing wrong with discussing apologetics and theological differences but I always thought it strange how some Catholics insist that Catholicism is the ONLY way to salvation. If someone is already a follower of Jesus Christ and professes the faith as the early creeds describe it, then there's no need to try to convert them over to Roman Catholicism. If someone has a desire to join, that's fine, but it certainly isn't the only way to "save my soul".

10 posted on 11/28/2016 9:02:42 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
I think the Pope was right about something here.

I'm not surprised. Apostates tend to defend each other as a defense mechanism.

13 posted on 11/28/2016 9:13:51 PM PST by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome)
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To: boatbums

I see your point, and I think that arguments and rivalries between Christians do not help the faith.


17 posted on 11/28/2016 9:36:28 PM PST by BlackVeil ('The past is never dead. It's not even past.' William Faulkner)
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To: boatbums
People who are already Christian believers shouldn't be seen as fertile ground for those

If some Protestant denominations viewed Catholics the way you say Catholics should view Protestants, they wouldn't even exist. The Assemblies of God in some places is as much as 90% ex-Catholics. I suppose Pope Francis is fine with that. He certainly has few or no kind words to say about actual Catholics trying to remain faithful.

What you're saying amounts to demanding that Catholics unilaterally disarm, and let Protestants and others poach as many Catholics as they can.

We have real disagreements, and it's dishonest to pretend that they don't matter.

21 posted on 11/28/2016 9:49:41 PM PST by Campion (Halten Sie sich unbedingt an die Lehre!)
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To: boatbums
Does truth matter? Is there even such a thing as truth and if there is, can we know it and is it important to know it?

Any church, community of believers or other ecclesial entity must believe that it possesses the truth and the whole truth, mustn't it? If it doesn't, it has no business hanging out a shingle and inviting people in, does it? "We're not really sure......" is not a valid religious model although the Unitarians might disagree.

The Catholic Church certainly believes that it possesses the uncorrupted Gospel truth and I presume that you and your group of believers do likewise. Which leads to my question:

If we believe we possess the entire truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, wouldn't we want to share that truth with others? That seems to make perfect sense to me. Call it "proselytism" if you want, with all the negative connatations which have been attached to that word but to me, it's simply sharing the truth. What does not make sense to me, is believing that one possesses the truth and not wanting to share it.

Ergo, Francis' words make no sense. The only way they do make sense is if he a) does not believe that the Catholic Church possesses the whole truth and/or b) does not believe that truth ultimately matters. If the former, he's a heretic, if the latter, he's a syncretist.

34 posted on 11/29/2016 5:46:35 AM PST by marshmallow
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