Posted on 08/12/2016 3:59:59 PM PDT by ebb tide
You have; evidently; a great imagination.
Why not put it to work and show any proof you might have for any of the claims you've made instead of trying to get me to search around in the haystack of your mind for the possibly non-existant needle.
Is not the Catholic position that Mary remained a virgin for life? That is not scriptural. The Lutheran perspective is that the focus of God's plan, the Bible, everything is about Jesus Christ. The position you posted is from a Solid Declaration on Christ, not His mother. We confess the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds, they and the Bible acknowledge the Virgin birth..
Catholics Mariology ascribes more to the faithful Mary than what is written.
We have a poster at church that has the names ascribed to Jesus from scripture. This list looks longer, now you have made me want to count. These I have no problem with, except for the idea that Mary the mother of our Lord has need of a title: God-bearer, Mother of Christ, Virgin God-bearer, Mother of Our Redeemer.
Amen I say to this post. If I were to post the same as you did here I would have only worded the last sentence you wrote to say “Now you probably can’t claim invincible ignorance as an excuse”. Since we are not God we can’t judge if AMPU (or anyone who read the words of your post yet still rejects them) has some mental defect or perhaps some other impediment that isn’t his fault that prevents him from truly understanding and still rejecting the message. IMO. But as a Catholic I can not nor will not disagree with what you wrote. All are in serious danger, even with “invincible ignorance” if they reject the Church.
After reading the rest of this thread it becomes apparent to me once again there is little left to do than pray for our separated brethren. Would you join me in entrusting their souls to the kind mercies of Our Lady, as I pray the Rosary now (and you do, when you do)? None who have fled to her protection have ever been left without her tender mercies.
Today is Saturday, so we have the Joyful Mysteries upon which to reflect. Perhaps a joyful mystery of heartfelt conversion for at least one reading or participating in this thread may be a result.
Again I say Amen to your post. It’s serious business, rejecting the Church. It is good to remind of this fact on occasion.
Traditionally, today are the Glorious Mysteries.
Do you believe His promise in John 5:24?
That is not an answer to the questions I posed. Dodging again I see.
No dodge needed. The sad issue is someone placing their faith in an idol when the Word tells us not to do so. Whether it be a piece of cloth, statue, etc.
How pathetic, that anyone would put their hope for eternal life in a piece of cloth, based upon a made up story... That can never save.
When they could have eternal life today and the assurance that comes with it.
“It’s serious business, rejecting the Church.”
No true believer rejects Christ’s assemble. They cannot. They are sealed by the Holy Spirit and baptized by Him into The Body of Christ - a guarantee of glory to come.
The Roman Catholic Church is simply a denomination that lost its way when it became Syncretic paganism. These very pagan beliefs now bind and blind her to God’s revealed Scriptures. The Word of God is now rejected, for the sake of tradition - the very thing Christ condemned the Pharisees for doing.
It is noted you did not provide any legitimate Scriptural basis for any claim you make.
Are you familiar with the Fatima prayer?
This as you can see refers to the virginity of Mary as it relates to Christ’s birth, not going forward. Matt 1:25.
I should have included raygunfan in my response to you.
raygunfan mentioned that protestants are very quiet on Luther’s words on Mary as ever virgin.
You stated that it isn’t Lutheran doctrine.
I was agreeing with both of your statements.
It is true that Luther did mention several times in his writings that Mary remained a virgin after Christ was born, that Mary bore no other children, and that Joseph never did know Mary carnally.
See
http://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/martin_luther_on_mary.php
It is also true that protestants, even Lutherans, are very quiet on Luther’s words. Lutherans include it as doctrine in neither the Augsburg Confession nor the Large Confession. It is only mentioned incidentally in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod’s declaration on the Person of Christ that Mary nevertheless remained a virgin.
See Section VIII (24) at
file:///C:/Users/Rich/Downloads/Solid%20Declaration%20(2).pdf
I no more worship a scapular or a rosary than one does of a framed photograph of his spouse or another family member.
Thanks. I agree with your improved wording and I do include heretics and schismatics in my rosary intentions.
Here is where your attempt to defend the false catholic worship/idolatry of these items falls apart.
No Christian is appealing to the picture of the family member for their salvation.
No Christian is relying upon the family member for their salvation.
No Christian prays to the picture of the family member for their salvation or other requests.
No Christian bows before the picture.
You admit you wear the scapular as instructed by the apparition at Fatima to which you have yet to be able to offer any Scriptural support in favor of.
For those following this thread: The "promise" of the apparition was: " Whosoever dies clothed in this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.”
If anyone believes this they are making this an idol. An idol is a false substitute for God.
The Bible does tell us however how we can have salvation and eternal life.
24“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. John 5:24 NASB
35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:35-40 NASB
For anyone willing to believe what John has recorded Jesus saying, forgiveness and eternal life in Heaven awaits.
However, if anyone rejects what Christ has said there is no forgiveness and eternal life in Hell awaits.
The Christian's hope is that everyone will heed the words of Christ and come and follow Him.
For those following this thread: The "promise" of the apparition was: " Whosoever dies clothed in this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.”
Once again, you have shown your ignorance of the One, True Church. The brown scapular was revealed by the Blessed Mother to St. Simon Stock in 1251 A.D. The Fatima apparitions did not start until 1917 A.D.
Protestants cherry-pick the Bible, i.e. John 20;23, they cherry-pick the saints whom they do acknowledge, i.e. St. Augustine about no salvation outside the Catholic Church, and they reject any other saints they don't personally agree with. Why do you think they are proud of that very name, "protestant"?
For them, it's a personal Church of Me, from Luther on down.
Same apparition catholics claim to be "Mary".
http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/pdf/brown_scapular.pdf
You place your faith in an idolatrous piece of cloth based on the words of a false apparition to which you've yet been able to offer any support from the New Testament to justify this belief.
And you won't be able to as it is counter to the message of the New Testament that faith in Christ and Christ alone is what saves us.
Belief in the scapular for your salvation is idolatry.
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