Posted on 05/24/2016 6:49:46 AM PDT by Salvation
Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.
We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.
Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).
Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”
Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”
So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).
St Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as follows:
Genitori, Genitoque … Procedenti ab utroque … compar sit laudautio
(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)
The Athanasian Creed says the following regarding these processions:
The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone, neither made nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.
So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.
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Says he who has had more posts removed than I can count.
btw....what's a prot posse?
I know. I love astronomy. To look up at a star filled night just inspires awe and wonder.
It is very humbling to think that God said and there was what He had commanded to come into existence....all by His spoken word. Ex nihilo.
It baffles scientists and philosophers to this day that He did this in six 24 hour days. Of course, He could have done this in six seconds or whatever measure of time one chooses.
I tell people, if He couldn't create the world as noted in Genesis, then He is not God.
That He did is awe inspiring.
I love to ask these groups two questions:
1) how does something come from nothing?
2) how does life come from lifelessness?
When people start the how many angels can fit on a pin discussion it reminds me of a George Carlin routine. Somtimes I think that is where some get their philosophy/religion from!
The snipe is verga's version of the Flying Inmans designation some of us got during the years we wrestled with Mormons, trying to get them to see the blasphemies and heresies at the heart of Mormonism.
I must say, I like the notion of being compared to a posse chasing down ... heresies. I wonder, did verga mean it as a compliment?
No just so that every one is clear did you not answer because you are unable or be cause you are unwilling. Or it could be a combination. Please let me know.
You may ask until you are blue in the face, (please feel free to do so). I replied in post 417.
The meaning of your post is that God was created by something or someone....unless you're redefining a whole bunch of words.
Please see post 283.
What do banned/ suspended protestant members have to do with having posts pulled? Those are two unrelated topics. Why are you keeping track of how many posts get pulled? Is it stalking or a man crush, either way it is kind of creepy.
Yeah you can see posts 283 and 417 for yourself as well. There was no deflection. You seem to be projecting again.
Sounds like you've been the one tracking who is banned or not.
Is it stalking or a man crush, either way it is kind of creepy.
If you say 283 is correct then your 160 post is in error.
If you say 160 is correct, then your 283 is in error.
They both cannot be correct.
Either way, you've boxed yourself into a corner.
Sorry, verga....you said God came into existence. The only way to clarify your statement is to admit it's an error. Are you willing to admit what you said in your post #160 was in error?
Your post 417 in reply.
This has been Christian thought for almost 1600 years, to deny this would make me a heretic. It was settled at the Council of Nicea when the Arian heresy was put down. Get over yourself.
To which I replied in 418
To be clear....you’re saying the Council of Nicea said God came into existence??
You have not answered that.
And I would like a link to where the Council said God came into existence.
LOL...
1) Is Jesus the same substance (Homoousios) as God the Father, a similar substance (Homoiousios), or a different substance (Heteroousios)? a) If He is a similar substances what are the differences how does this affect their unity? b) If he is a completely different substance, whee did the different substance come from and how does this affect their unity? Is the Holy Spirit the same, similar or different substance as the Father and the Son? If there are differences please describe them in detail and describe how this would affect their unity.
Define substance.
No just so that every one is clear did you not answer because you are unable or be cause you are unwilling. Or it could be a combination. Please let me know.
Since you are playing teacher why don't you answer them???
The remainder of your questions were answered in my post 441 to which you replied:
Just so we are clear, slinging verse isn’t going to cut it. You were asked very specific direct questions. They require direct answers that actually address them.
As I noted later...if the Word of God is insufficient in some way for you then I cannot help you.
To be honest, I'm really surprised that someone who calls himself a believer would even ask some of these questions.
Speaking of the Universe; What did God create the Universe out of? Did He build it out of some part of Himself? If he did build it out of some part of Himself does that make Him less infinite since He used part of Himself. If He built it out of nothing, then where did the nothing come from? If the nothing already existed does that mean that God is not truly infinite?
It still leaves us with your post #160 where you claimed God came into existence.
I'm still waiting on any evidence to support your erroneous claim.
I never 'noticed' any.
Wanna compare lists?
What?!
And waste all that money spent on dancing lessons?
It was this one that got me started.
I thought I knew.
Heck; high school grad and first year Air force tech school.
I was right up there with the Pakleds!!
To look up at a star filled night just inspires awe and wonder.
Yup; the Big Bang!
From nothing came ALL of this mass: spewing across the vastness of... something.
I knew from school that Einstein said E=Mc2
All ya gotta do is transpose the equation to read M=E/c2
And there ya go; all this mass created!!
A few moments later; this unanswerable question slipped into my head: Where did the Energy come from?
Nope not at all. Listen take a copy of both posts and go to your seminary show them to a couple of your instructors and then ask them about Aquinas’s five proofs for the existence of God.
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To: ealgeone
This has been Christian thought for almost 1600 years, to deny this would make me a heretic. It was settled at the Council of Nicea when the Arian heresy was put down. Get over yourself. 417 posted on 5/30/2016 10:20:01 PM by verga (In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.)
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Why are YOU keeping track of how many PROTS get banned?
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