Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?

Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 05-23-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Salvation]

Why Does Jesus Call the Father Greater If We Teach That the Members of the Trinity Are Equal?

Msgr. Charles Pope • May 23, 2016 •

Many of you know that I write the Question and Answer column for Our Sunday Visitor. Given the celebration of Trinity Sunday this past Sunday, I thought I might reproduce here on the blog a question/answer regarding the Trinity. It is a fairly common question; perhaps you have it, too. Remember that my answers in the column are required to be brief.

We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1, 2016) that Jesus says that the Father is greater than He (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such a statement?” – Dick Smith, Carrolton, TX.

Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal, and equally divine. But the Father is the Principium Deitatis (the Source in the Deity).

Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principle or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”

Devotionally, Jesus is saying that He always does what pleases His Father. Jesus loves His Father; He’s crazy about Him. He is always talking about Him and pointing to Him. By calling the Father greater, He says (in effect), “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see Him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases Him (Jn 5:30). His will and mine are one. What I will to do proceeds from Him. I do what I know accords with His will.”

So although the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity, such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from Him (Jn 8:42), and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son as from one principal (Jn 15:26).

St Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as follows:

Genitori, Genitoque … Procedenti ab utroque … compar sit laudautio

(To the One Who Begets, and to the Begotton One, and to the One who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.)

The Athanasian Creed says the following regarding these processions:

The Father is made by none, neither created nor begotten.

The Son is of the Father alone, neither made nor created, but begotten.

The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son, not made, nor created, nor begotten, but he proceeds from them.

So although equal, processions do have an order. The Father is “greater” (as source), but is equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.

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[metmom]

This has been Christian thought for almost 1600 years, to deny this would make me a heretic. It was settled at the Council of Nicea when the Arian heresy was put down. Get over yourself.

No. It's been CATHOLIC thought for over 1600 years.

Don't conflate *Catholic* with *Christian*.

They are not by default synonymous terms.

Being Christian does not automatically make one a Catholic and being a Catholic does not automatically make one a Christian.

[metmom]

That’s the way it reads when you follow the conversation.

[boatbums]

Some people are incapable of admitting they made a mistake though they are quick to demand others do so should they “catch” them in one or think they have.

[Thales Miletus]

The question then is did he convince you - a cross between an atheist and agnostic - or was it wasted on you?

You keep confusing terms. I am an Agnostic / Metatheist. An Atheist denies the existence of God. A Metatheist questions the proposition.

[Thales Miletus]

Aren't you tired of your "gottcha games" yet? As others have pointed out your understanding of philosophy is severely limited. You do not demonstrate even the most basic understanding of "infinite" or "eternal"

Metmom I believe that this is a perfect example of "stirring the pot" or "rabble rousing." Perhaps this is an opportunity for you to apply fraternal correction.

[Elsie]

The saying is “I believe in God; God does not exist.”

I understand.

Everything that has been created; has 'existed'.

There has; or will; come a time when the 'existence' of created things will end.

This explains to me a bit more of the fact of God's statement to Moses:

I am.

[Elsie]

I fully expect the prots to make some snide comments, but I will try to clarify for you if need be.

Which part of your explanation; do you feel; will be rejected by PROTs snidely?

[Elsie]

A precise and well worded explanation of the ‘hypostasis’.

I was going to post something like this; until a shiny object snidely caught my eye at the end of his explanation.

[Elsie]

This has been Christian thought for almost 1600 years, to deny this would make me a heretic.

That GOD 'came' into existence?

[Elsie]

...to deny this would make me a heretic.

Even heretics make mistakes occasionally.

[Elsie]

You see the Creeds from a Wesleyan framework, I a Catholic.

If true; we are both wrong.

We need to see Wesleyan and Catholic from a BIBLICAL framework.

[Elsie]

Oh!

Then you are a Seeker!

Jeremiah 29:13
You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Keep looking. Just keep on looking...

You’re in a pretty good place right now.

[Elsie]

Aren't you tired of your "gottcha games" yet? As others have pointed out your understanding of philosophy is severely limited.

HMMMmmm...

Aren't you tired of your "gottcha games" yet? As others have pointed out your understanding of Christianity is severely limited.

[Elsie]

Metmom I believe that this is a perfect example of "stirring the pot" or "rabble rousing."

HMMMmmm...²

[Kolokotronis]

"This explains to me a bit more of the fact of God's statement to Moses: I am." Exactly. the words, "Ο ΩΝ" or "ο ων" which you will see on many icons of Christ and of course in the Septuagint at Exodus 3:14, are the Greek for that.

[Kolokotronis]

Sorry

"This explains to me a bit more of the fact of God's statement to Moses:

I am."

Exactly. the words, "Ο ΩΝ" or "ο ων" which you will see on many icons of Christ and of course in the Septuagint at Exodus 3:14, are the Greek for that.

[verga]

I have been more than tolerant and patient with your attacks eagleone , let's hear / see some answers from you.
1) Is Jesus the same substance (Homoousios) as God the Father, a similar substance (Homoiousios), or a different substance (Heteroousios)?
a) If He is a similar substances what are the differences how does this affect their unity?
b) If he is a completely different substance, whee did the different substance come from and how does this affect their unity?
Is the Holy Spirit the same, similar or different substance as the Father and the Son?
If there are differences please describe them in detail and describe how this would affect their unity.

God is infinite (taking up all space), and eternal (existing from all time). How is there room for the Universe to exist if God is truly infinite?
Speaking of the Universe; What did God create the Universe out of? Did He build it out of some part of Himself?
If he did build it out of some part of Himself does that make Him less infinite since He used part of Himself.
If He built it out of nothing, then where did the nothing come from? If the nothing already existed does that mean that God is not truly infinite?

I will be waiting for you to illuminate all of us.

[ealgeone]

It's not a gotcha game. Verga notes God came into existence which is counter to the Word.

You two seem to have conversations about philosophy which is fine. You doubt, or questiom, God. That's your right to do so. However, you may be underestimating your influence on some with your questioning of God's existence.

I took a philosophy class years ago as an undergrad. I was not overly impressed.

When John 1:1 and Genesis 1:1 tell us God has always existed I have no problem accepting that. When the evidence tells us Christ was crucified and resurrected I have no problem with that.

Christianity is about faith in Christ.

Do you believe Jesus died for your sins and offers you complete forgiveness? Will you follow Him?

[ealgeone]

Never met a “prot” before.....who are they?

[ealgeone]

I have been more than tolerant and patient with your attacks eagleone , let's hear / see some answers from you.

I question your post #160 where you claim God came into existence and you call that an attack??