Posted on 05/14/2016 8:48:31 AM PDT by Salvation
While Jesus states God is ‘greater,’ it is only in the sense that the Father is the principal source of being
Msgr. Charles Pope 5/11/2016
Question: We read in a recent Sunday Gospel (May 1), that Jesus says the Father is greater than him (Jn 14:28). Since we are all taught that each divine person of the Blessed Trinity fully possesses the nature of God, equally to be adored and glorified, what did Jesus mean by such statement?— Dick Smith, Carrollton, Texas
Answer: Theologically, Jesus means that the Father is the eternal source in the Trinity.
All three Persons of the Trinity are co-eternal, co-equal and equally divine. But the Father is the principium deitatis (the source in the deity).
Hence, Jesus proceeds from the Father from all eternity. He is eternally begotten of the Father. In effect, Jesus is saying, “I delight that the Father is the eternal principal or source of my being, even though I have no origin in time.”
Devotionally, Jesus is saying that he always does what pleases his Father. Jesus loves his Father. He is always talking about him and pointing to him. By calling the Father greater, he says, in effect, “I look to my Father for everything. I do what I see him doing (Jn 5:19) and what I know pleases him (Jn 5:30).”
So, though the members of the Trinity are all equal in dignity, there are processions in the Trinity such that the Father is the source, the Son eternally proceeds from him, and the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from them both.
St. Thomas speaks poetically of the Trinity as: “To the one who begets, and to the Begotten One, and to the one who proceeds from them both, be equal praise.” So, though equal, processions do have an order, and the Father is “greater” as source, but equal in dignity to Son and Holy Spirit.
God the Father labeled Jesus Christ as His Son.
(Mat 16:15) He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
(Mat 16:16) And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
(Mat 16:17) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
**Christ applies to Himself the name of God, calling Himself “I Am” and establishing His omnipresence:**
Personal interpretation much??
Jesus Christ is filled with the power of the Father, who is invisible. John chapter 14 makes that quite plain.
**In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1)**
Are you saying that God the Father is not the source of the Word? Jesus Christ disagrees with you:
“My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.” John 7:16
“For I have not spoken of myself: but the Father which sent me, he gave commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.” John 12:49,50
Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God. An image that speaks the words of the invisible God. Jesus Christ is not God the image, but the image of the invisible God (Col. 1:15).
**Rev_1:8....
Joh_20:28....
Joh_9:38....
Isa_9:6....**
All of which do not imply that the omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent (invisible) Father is off in la-la land, away from Christ. The Father is IN Christ giving him all power and authority. It is your challenge to prove that not to be the case.
Want two visible men that are to be viewed as God? The LDS hold that opinion, thanks to their false prophet founder.
All true. I have no argument with that.
It’s the failure of understanding Jesus Christ’s definition of the Father that leaves so many confused, thinking of the Father as another physical being, sitting on a throne, somewhere out of our sight.
**Not really relevant...**
Understanding the Godhead is always relevant to anything pertaining to God.
**His life.**
....which he received from the Father at the beginning.
“For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;” John 5:26
He never defines the Father other than stating “I am” in hypostatic union.
Presumptuous AND specious ... Not a good start.
How many Gods do you believe exist? If Jesus is called “God” and the Holy Spirit is called “God” and the Father is called “God”, do we have three Gods (like the Muslims claim Christians do) or ONE God manifest as three “persons”?
These are questions that have been debated for thousands of years. Nobody claims to comprehend it all, but we believe there is only one, true God and He is manifested to mankind through the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We accept this by faith because God has revealed this truth to us through His divinely inspired word.
Stubborn AND evasive...
**Not a good start**
God has revealed Himself to us in three Persons, still one God.
He made us in His image.
A great study is to make a spreadsheet and track every reference to each different person of the Godhead, to discern how He manifests Himself.
**He never defines the Father other than stating “I am” in hypostatic union.**
Jesus Christ claimed his words were from the Father, for in these last days, he is the mouthpiece of the invisible God.
He claims that the Father is in him doing the works. Do you believe that?
If you insist that the flesh of Christ is God, then you must be a follower of the RCC or LDS.
When we understand God has made man a little lower than the angels, yet man will rule them, the role of God the Father to God the Son becomes amazingly interesting.
Jesus Christ, the head of the Church, is also fully human and fully God. When we pray to God, we pray to God the Father, through faith in Christ, who is our intercessor.
**Nobody claims to comprehend it all, but we believe there is only one, true God and He is manifested to mankind through the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.**
And Jesus Christ claims that the Son and the Holy Ghost have a common original source: God the Father.
That’s why you find phrases like ‘Son of God’, and ‘Spirit of God’ in the scriptures. ‘God the Son’, and ‘God the Holy Spirit’, are not found in the scriptures because they do not properly define God.
**Jesus Christ, the head of the Church, is also fully human and fully God.**
fully human without sin = Jesus Christ (who denied his own human will)
fully God = God the Father (in Christ, keeping him sinless, and giving him all power)
Do not confuse God the Father as God the Son. One God, but manifest as different persons.
God the Son doesn’t know the day or hour of the 2nd coming, but God the Father does know, yet they are one God.
Notice you didn't actually attempt to refute the obvious position, but chose to make a nonsensical comment. The scripture does not say that God merely fills Christ or empowers Him. It says Christ is God, and Christ calls Himself God.
Like I asked you before,
How many Gods do you believe exist? If Jesus is called “God” and the Holy Spirit is called “God” and the Father is called “God”, do we have three Gods (like the Muslims claim Christians do) or ONE God manifest as three “persons”?
Don't get hung up on terms like "God the Son" versus "Son of God". In the Scriptures the titles are interchangeable and Jesus IS "God with us" which is why He can be called God the Son. We don't have three Gods but only ONE God manifested in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God. Don't forget that the Son has always existed as has the Father and the Holy Spirit. Jesus took on human flesh at the incarnation (what the word actually means) - a specific space and time - but has always existed as the Son of God.
Instead of trying to comprehend how all this is possible with our mortal, finite minds, we accept by faith what God has revealed about Himself to us through His word. The early church, faced with heresy from the start from those who denied the divinity of Jesus Christ, wrote up a creed and defined the best they could, using the Scriptures as their guide, the doctrine of the Trinity. Is it perfect? Is it comprehensive? Is it everything that could be said about the Trinity? Maybe not, but everything it says is proved by Scripture.
Jesus never said we have to understand everything about the Trinity to be saved, but He did say if we deny He is come in the flesh, is the I AM, is the incarnate God who is able to make full atonement for our sins by His precious, sinless blood, we would die in our sins. That is why I accept that He is God even though I don't fully understand everything that entails. It IS faith, after all, and one day we will know as we are known. We will have the mind of Christ and it will ALL make perfect sense.
Jesus Christ is the incarnate God, the hypostatic union of a human nature with the divine nature, the enfleshed second person of the Trinity.
If you don't believe that, you simply aren't a Christian.
**The scripture does not say that God merely fills Christ or empowers Him.**
Oh really?.....(and ‘merely’ is such an understatement)
“For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; and hath given him authority to execute judgement also, because he is the Son of man..” John 5:26,27
Who again gave him life? and authority?
“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.” John 14:10
Who is in Christ giving forth the divine words and works?
“All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Matt.28:18
Who gave him all power?
Did the Son inherit his name, yes or no?
Is God the Father omnipotent?
Is God the Father omniscient?
Is God the Father omnipresent?
Is God the Father in Christ?
Jesus Christ credits the Father for EVERYTHING divine. Perhaps you would like to prove otherwise.
**How many Gods do you believe exist?**
One.
**If Jesus is called “God”**
Jesus Christ called himself the Son of God, as did his apostles.
**and the Holy Spirit is called “God”**
The Comforter ( Holy Spirit ) has a source of origin, and it’s origin is God the Father.
**and the Father is called “God”,**
Right,....a whole LOT of times in the scriptures.
Is the Father in Christ or not?
**ONE God manifest as three “persons”?**
just three manifestations? Hebrews 1:1,2 says: “God who at sundry times and divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers and the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom he made the worlds;”
..appointed heir of all things?....In a three separate and distinct persons Godhead, is the Father and the Holy Spirit going to be left with nothing?
**In the Scriptures the titles are interchangeable and Jesus IS “God with us” which is why He can be called God the Son.**
In the scriptures?......the phrase ‘God the Son’ is not in the scriptures.
Jesus Christ says a great deal in the book of John about the source of his power and authority. He says that that source is the Father, and that he dwells in the Father, and that the Father dwells in him.
That is why the Christ is called ‘God with us’. The divinely created man (complete with a mind and soul) has the omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient Father in him, just as he said.
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