Posted on 04/16/2016 8:01:29 AM PDT by Salvation
Q. Can you explain about the incorruptibles? I know that some saints are given that designation, but is it part of the process of canonization? What does it mean spiritually if a body is incorrupt? Was St. John XXIII found to be incorrupt?
Name withheld by request, via e-mail
A. The normal process of decay for the human body, especially before embalming was common, was for the remains of a cadaver to be largely skeletonized within just a few years after death. In certain rare cases, however, the usual process of decay seems arrested and the bodies are preserved largely intact.
This fact has been observed in a number of cases regarding Catholic saints.
As part of the process of canonization, the bodily remains of the saints are usually exhumed and examined. In not a few cases, their bodies are found to have escaped the usual decay and corruption that is the lot of the typical human body, which returns to the dust from which it came.
In addition, there is sometimes a pleasant fragrance like roses emanating from the body of those found incorrupt.
Generally speaking, when the body of a candidate for sainthood is found incorrupt, this is looked upon favorably by the Church as a sign of sanctity since, implicitly, the individual has escaped the full consequences of the punishment due to sin. For Adam was told after he sinned, “For you are dust, / and to dust you shall return” (Gn 3:19).
However, to be sure, though incorruptibility is looked upon favorably, it is not an absolute requirement for canonization, for many canonized saints are not listed among the incorruptibles.
Further, natural phenomena — for example, lack of oxygen — can also explain the lengthy preservation of bodies.
Pope St. John XXIII’s body was found largely intact when exhumed. This was judged to be the result of unusually extensive embalming before his entombment.
But it is also important not to be misled by the term incorruptible.
It does not necessarily mean that the person looks exactly as they did the day the casket was closed. The usual condition of an incorruptible is more akin to a kind of mummified state. Though the skin and organs may be largely intact, and still flexible, most of the moisture of the body has departed, producing a mummified look.
Further, when one looks at the bodies of incorruptible saints in some of the churches of Europe, a wax mask of sorts often covers the face and hands.
Most notably, the beautiful face of St. Bernadette, the visionary of Lourdes, that people see when they visit Nevers, France, actually includes a wax mask that covers the face and hands of her incorrupt body. Her actual face has a more mummified appearance, as seen in photos of her exhumed body. Her body is incorrupt, but her face and hands (visible outside her habit) are not as moist and fully featured as when she was alive.
So we ought not have a notion that is too exaggerated about what an incorruptible body looks like. They have surely evaded the usual human condition which reduces us to dust and bones, but they seldom look like the very day they died.
So you reject the claims of the apparition which Catholics claim is Mary?
Saul alinsky would be proud of you! Early with the name calling. I notice Catholics are the thinnest skinned people besides Obama!
“So you reject the claims of the apparition which Catholics claim is Mary?”
Show me one “claim” from an approved apparition in which Mary said we should worship her. Can you? No, you can’t. What a typical anti-Catholic would do now is post a claim which says nothing of the kind but insist it meets HIS OWN interpretation of “worship” and then falsely attack the Church with that.
So, what will you do, eagleone?
When catholicism tears down the statutes of Mary including the ones where Mary is always the grown up holding a little Jesus.
“Saul alinsky would be proud of you!”
no, he would more likely like you since you act as communists do - changing the definitions of words to suit your purposes.
“Early with the name calling.”
What name did I call you?
“I notice Catholics are the thinnest skinned people besides Obama!”
Well, since you just said Alinsky would be proud of me, I guess you’re the kettle. Hypocrisy: It’s what anti-Catholics live.
“...including the ones where Mary is always the grown up holding a little Jesus.”
So Jesus was never a baby?
For God so loved the world he sent a book.
**tears down the statutes**
Did spellcheck think you meant laws and ordinances?
You're not even close.
For God so loved the world He gave His only Begotten Son.
Not His whole life. But catholicism sure seems to depict Him that way with mary.
Do you believe what the apparitions that claim to be Mary said to do?
“Not His whole life.”
So you won’t let your mother put up baby photos of you because you’re now (supposedly) an adult, right?
“But catholicism sure seems to depict Him that way with mary.”
And we also have crucifixes showing Jesus in death and He most certainly was not dead “His whole life” and is very much risen and very much alive. See how that works? Statues are static. They really can only capture one moment in time. Is this news to you?
The 15 Promises of Our Lady
1) To all those who shall pray my Rosary devoutly, I promise my special protection and great graces.
2) Those who shall persevere in the recitation of my Rosary will receive some special grace.
3) The Rosary will be a very powerful armor against hell; it will destroy vice, deliver from sin and dispel heresy.
4) The Rosary will make virtue and good works flourish, and will obtain for souls the most abundant divine mercies. It will draw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.
5) Those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary will not perish.
6) Whoever recites my Rosary devoutly reflecting on the mysteries, shall never be overwhelmed by misfortune. He will not experience the anger of God nor will he perish by an unprovided death. The sinner will be converted; the just will persevere in grace and merit eternal life.
7) Those truly devoted to my Rosary shall not die without the sacraments of the Church.
8) Those who are faithful to recite my Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces and will share in the merits of the blessed.
9) I will deliver promptly from purgatory souls devoted to my Rosary.
10) True children of my Rosary will enjoy great glory in heaven.
11) What you shall ask through my Rosary you shall obtain.
12) To those who propagate my Rosary I promise aid in all their necessities.
13) I have obtained from my Son that all the members of the Rosary Confraternity shall have as their intercessors, in life and in death, the entire celestial court.
14) Those who recite my Rosary faithfully are my beloved children, the brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ.
15) Devotion to my Rosary is a special sign of predestination.
http://www.santorosario.net/english/promises.htm
“ Whosoever dies clothed in this Scapular shall not suffer eternal fire.”
- words of Our Lady to Saint Simon Stock
http://www.fatima.org/apostolate/pdf/brown_scapular.pdf
Oh and the first picture on the website...Big Mary....little Jesus.
The best known and most highly esteemed scapular, and the one most favored by the Church, and by the Blessed Virgin in many of her apparitions, is the Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel. It is adapted from the scapular of the Carmelite Order and represents a special Consecration to Our Lady under the title of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel. Those who wear it practice it a special devotion to Mary. In the past this was the Little Office of Our Lady, but today this can be commuted by any priest to the rosary.
In addition, the person has a special entrustment of themselves to Mary for their salvation.
This, in fact, has been promised to those who faithfully wear the scapular: "Those who die wearing this scapular shall not suffer eternal fire." https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/brown_scapular.htm A little false teaching goes a long way.
None. Repeat none of this devotion/worship of this apparition, relying upon these false claims for salvation is found in Scripture. Anywhere.
Faith is only in Christ. No one else. John 14:6
So what will the catholic do....continue to believe these false apparitions or deny them?
Balls in ya'lls court.
I know catholicism does. It's because ya'll keep re-sacrificing Him over and over again for your Mass.
Christianity has an empty cross because He's off the cross.
“Balls in ya’lls court.”
Just as I said: “Show me one “claim” from an approved apparition in which Mary said we should worship her. Can you? No, you can’t.”
And you didn’t. Game. Set. Match.
“I know catholicism does. It’s because ya’ll keep re-sacrificing Him over and over again for your Mass.”
Nope. No more than a Protestant rendering of the empty cross shows He was never on it. And no more than a rendering of Jesus exiting the tomb would imply Jesus rises from the dead over and over again. But an anti-Catholic has to make things up, of course.
“Christianity has an empty cross because He’s off the cross.”
Some Protestants have an “empty cross”. Not all. And certainly not all Christians. And you can’t speak for Christianity very well. As I said earlier: “No, but in all fairness to eagleone - who seems to know less about Christianity than he does about other things - ...”
Amazing.
A catholic priest, John O'Brien, says Jesus is continually sacrificed on the altar again and again and again. I think a trained catholic priest will know more than you. Unless you're a priest.
My knowledge of Christianity is based on the Word.
` When you have statues/idols you kneel in front of, offers prayers to and rely upon for salvation....it’s worship.
You can call it anything you want to make yourself feel better...but it’s worship. ~
I explained the difference, but apparently you are too biased or too dumb to understand.
I refuse to reply to your idiotic posts ever again; as you have proven to be a moron with an agenda...
4Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. 5Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me. Exodus 20:4-5 Douay-Rheims
“You’re going clinton on this I see.”
You’re the one changing the meaning of words and avoiding the clear meaning of the word “worship”.
“Looking for the word worship.”
Since you claimed it. And, as was bound to be the case, your claim was false.
“Amazing.”
Yes, it’s amazing how you claimed something without proof and then fell flat - just as was predicted - when you were asked for proof. That will continue.
“A catholic priest, John O’Brien, says Jesus is continually sacrificed on the altar again and again and again.”
Nope. He never says that. Not even once. He says that Jesus is the “eternal Victim” whose offering of Himself SACRAMENTALLY can be repeatedly numerous times. How do I know this? Because anti-Catholics repeatedly make up false things about O’Brien and his famous book and I have refuted them here numerous times. In a thread from March, for example:
“The simple fact is that John A. O’Brien was an excellent theologian who actually understood the Catholic faith - which does not seem to be true in your case from what you yourself have repeatedly written in this forum. He KNEW Jesus could not be sacrificed over and over again and wrote about Christ’s ONE TIME sacrifice in his books. In fact, in the book in question, through the wonders of google book previews, you can see that on page 190 he refers to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross as “the one perfect sacrifice” while talking about confession. In other words, he knows the power of confession - of absolving sins - comes from the one sacrifice 2,000 years ago but is inexhaustible in the sacrament of confession even now. The Eucharist is the same. Again, through google books, “It [meaning the Eucharist] is an unbloody renewal of the sacrifice of Calvary” (page 317). It’s the SAME sacrifice. It is NOT Jesus being sacrificed again and again and again. No one could do that if they tried. It’s the same sacrifice offered. Also, see:
http://www.themichigancatholic.org/2015/04/does-the-catholic-mass-re-sacrifice-jesus/ “
None of that stops anti-Catholics from making up new falsehoods, however.
“I think a trained catholic priest will know more than you.”
Actually, no. Although I freely admit a priest of his era - with his education - might very well know more than I do.
“Unless you’re a priest.”
Nope. Don’t need to be to have a similar knowledge base.
“My knowledge of Christianity is based on the Word.”
That clearly is NOT the case. You make that apparent in thread after thread. And you apparently understand even less about O’Brien and what he wrote than you do about the Bible.
When the priest pronounces the tremendous words of consecration, he reaches up into the heavens, brings Christ down from His throne,
and places Him upon our alter to be offered up again as the Victim for the sins of man.
It is a power greater than that of monarchs and emperor: it is greater than that of saints and angels, greater than that of Seraphim and Cherubim.
Indeed it is greater even than the power of the Virgin Mary. While the Blessed Virgin was the human agency by which Christ became incarnate a single time,
the priest brings Christ down from heaven, and renders Him present on our altar as the eternal Victim for the sins of man – not once but a thousand times!
The priest speaks and lo! Christ, the eternal and omnipotent God, bows his head in humble obedience to the priest’s command.
The Faith of Millions: The Credentials of the Catholic Religion, O’Brien, John Anthony Rev, Our Sunday Visitor, Inc, Huntington, Indiana, Nihil obstat: Rev. Lawrence Gollner, Censor Librorum, Imprimatur: Leo A Pursley, Bishop of Fort Wayne-South Bend, pages 255-256 The Faith of Millions: The Credentials of the Catholic Religion
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