Posted on 04/16/2016 8:01:29 AM PDT by Salvation
Q. Can you explain about the incorruptibles? I know that some saints are given that designation, but is it part of the process of canonization? What does it mean spiritually if a body is incorrupt? Was St. John XXIII found to be incorrupt?
Name withheld by request, via e-mail
A. The normal process of decay for the human body, especially before embalming was common, was for the remains of a cadaver to be largely skeletonized within just a few years after death. In certain rare cases, however, the usual process of decay seems arrested and the bodies are preserved largely intact.
This fact has been observed in a number of cases regarding Catholic saints.
As part of the process of canonization, the bodily remains of the saints are usually exhumed and examined. In not a few cases, their bodies are found to have escaped the usual decay and corruption that is the lot of the typical human body, which returns to the dust from which it came.
In addition, there is sometimes a pleasant fragrance like roses emanating from the body of those found incorrupt.
Generally speaking, when the body of a candidate for sainthood is found incorrupt, this is looked upon favorably by the Church as a sign of sanctity since, implicitly, the individual has escaped the full consequences of the punishment due to sin. For Adam was told after he sinned, “For you are dust, / and to dust you shall return” (Gn 3:19).
However, to be sure, though incorruptibility is looked upon favorably, it is not an absolute requirement for canonization, for many canonized saints are not listed among the incorruptibles.
Further, natural phenomena — for example, lack of oxygen — can also explain the lengthy preservation of bodies.
Pope St. John XXIII’s body was found largely intact when exhumed. This was judged to be the result of unusually extensive embalming before his entombment.
But it is also important not to be misled by the term incorruptible.
It does not necessarily mean that the person looks exactly as they did the day the casket was closed. The usual condition of an incorruptible is more akin to a kind of mummified state. Though the skin and organs may be largely intact, and still flexible, most of the moisture of the body has departed, producing a mummified look.
Further, when one looks at the bodies of incorruptible saints in some of the churches of Europe, a wax mask of sorts often covers the face and hands.
Most notably, the beautiful face of St. Bernadette, the visionary of Lourdes, that people see when they visit Nevers, France, actually includes a wax mask that covers the face and hands of her incorrupt body. Her actual face has a more mummified appearance, as seen in photos of her exhumed body. Her body is incorrupt, but her face and hands (visible outside her habit) are not as moist and fully featured as when she was alive.
So we ought not have a notion that is too exaggerated about what an incorruptible body looks like. They have surely evaded the usual human condition which reduces us to dust and bones, but they seldom look like the very day they died.
Then just WHY did an angel tell John to write to those 7 Catholic churches in Asia?
They were teaching too MUCH 'truth'??
touche!
That doesn't leave any room for the catholic claim that Mary is co-redemtrix in any capacity.
Nor does it allow for any room of the claims from the apparition that appeared at lourdes whom catholics claim is mary. It especially negates this one:
5) Those who trust themselves to me through the Rosary will not perish.
Catholicism is the ONLY true and COMPLETE Christian church on Earth... others are either in error or, at best, incomplete.
WHY did an angel tell John to write to those 7 Catholic churches in Asia?
It wasn't, and that is why Desiderius Erasmus, the great Catholic scholar comparing the Greek to the Vulgate proclaimed it so. Though being persecuted by his RCC brethren, he compiled a very accurate Byzantine/Majority Textform, the Received Text which is still superior to the synthetic "critical" text based on corrupted documents used by Brooke Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort (still inaccurate and constantly undergoing revision).
It is from this test that the magnificent Authorized Version of the New Testament, emerging from a council of Bible scholars and translators unmatched in history, ruled the English-speaking Protestants for four centuries. In English and German, this New Testament was the undergirding of the Reformation, of which Erasmus is called the father.
The Vulgate Latin is even worse.
Every group, RCC or otherwise, has the Masoretic Hebrew and Received Texts, which contain aall the Truth God has revealed to the human race. It's what they do with it that counts.
Hmmm.
A dead soul, depending on their works to be worthy of God’s blessing and thus they believe Salvation, will latch onto any deception to continue supporting its pride. Catholiciism is based in feeding that fealty to sacraments pride at every turn and with each institutional dogma.
Came across this older post of yours, and though you would be interested in the series by Swan on this issue. That God for what helps .
Luther goes back on the naughty list i guess.
thank you for the ping.
Not completely back on the naughty list. While Luther disagreed with celebrating her birth, he did call her the mother of God:
But you know, my friends in Christ, that the honor given to the mother of God has been rooted so deeply into the hearts of men that no one wants to hear any opposition to this celebration.
Christianity has not confered upon Mary what catholicism has.
Luther certainly has not conferred upon Mary what the Catholic Church has. He has, however, conferred upon Mary what he believes is supported by Sacred Scripture. Not Mother of God with a capital M to honored above all other creatures. But mother with a lower case m, the young Jewish girl chosen by God the Father to be the earthly mother of His only begotten Son while He was incarnate.
They are consistently inconsistent.
The whole concept of the "adoration" (to use the catholic concept) of Mary has grown so much since the 3rd/4th century it has gone way beyond her statement in Luke where Mary says, "For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed."
There is no clear cut answer on this other than an appeal to Scripture. It is the one source we all agree upon. And none of what is taught about Mary in catholicism is found in Scripture.
Catholicism is the ONLY true and COMPLETE Christian church on Earth... others are either in error or, at best, incomplete.
The whole concept of the “adoration” (to use the catholic concept) of Mary
If you are going to talk about Catholic concepts, please use the correct terminology.
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
ADORATION: The acknowledgment of God as God, Creator and Savior, the Lord and Master of everything that exists. Through worship and prayer, the Church and individual persons give to God the adoration which is the first act of the virtue of religion. The first commandment of the law obliges us to adore God (2096, 2628; cf. 1083).
VENERATION (OF SAINTS): Showing devotion and respect to Mary, the Apostles, and the martyrs, who were viewed as faithful witnesses to faith in Jesus Christ. Later, veneration was given to those who led a life of prayer and self-denial in giving witness to Christ, whose virtues were recognized and publicly proclaimed in their canonization as saints (828). Such veneration is often extended to the relics or remains of those recognized as saints; indeed, to many sacred objects and images. Veneration must be clearly distinguished from adoration and worship, which are due to God alone (1154, 1674, 2132).
Mary as the mother of God is found in Scripture except by those who came along around the 18th and 19th centuries and decided that everyone before them was wrong.
Mary, as the mother of Christ is found in the Bible. Not the made up version as seen in roman catholicism.
We see none of the attributes of Mary in the NT that later developed under catholicism.
The Catholic concept is that worship is that which is given to God alone. From the Catechism:
WORSHIP: Adoration and honor given to God, which is the first act of the virtue of religion (2096). Public worship is given to God in the Church by the celebration of the Paschal Mystery of Christ in the liturgy (1067).
Do yo agree with tho Orthodox term for Mary, Theotokos?
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