Perpetual virginity

OSV.com ^ | 03-09-16 | Msgr. Charles Pope

[Salvation]

Perpetual virginity

3/9/2016

Question: I am a lifelong and devout Catholic and have always considered Mary to be ever virgin. But recently, I read in my Bible that Joseph had no relations with Mary “before” she bore a son (Mt 1:25). Now, I wonder if our belief does not contradict the Bible.— Eugene DeClue, Festus, Missouri

Answer: The Greek word “heos,” which your citation renders “before,” is more accurately translated “until,” which can be ambiguous without a wider context of time. It is true, in English, the usual sense of “until” is that I am doing or not doing something now “until” something changes, and then I start doing or not doing it. However, this is not always the case, even in Scripture.

If I say to you, “God bless you until we meet again.” I do not mean that after we meet again God’s blessing will cease or turn to curses. In this case, “until” is merely being used to refer to an indefinite period of time which may or may not ever occur. Surely, I hope we meet again, but it is possible we will not, so go with God’s blessings, whatever the case.

In Scripture, too, we encounter “until” being used merely to indicate an indefinite period whose conditions may or may not be met. Thus, we read, “And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death” (2 Sam 6:23). Of course, this should not be taken to mean that she started having children after she died. If I say to you in English that Christ “must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet” (1 Cor 15:25), I do not mean his everlasting kingdom will actually end thereafter.

While “until” often suggests a future change of state, it does not necessarily mean that the change happens — or even can happen. Context is important. It is the same in Greek, where heos, or heos hou, require context to more fully understand what is being affirmed.

The teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary does not rise or fall on one word, rather, a body of evidence from other sources such as: Mary’s question to the angel as to how a betrothed virgin would conceive; Jesus entrusting Mary to the care of a non-blood relative at this death; and also the long witness of ancient Tradition.

[boatbums]

No, there was no “uniformity” on that. The term “real presence” was an Anglican one and did not mean what Catholicism does today with the doctrine of transubstantiation. You have to look at what Scripture says - the instructions that were given to believers when they participated in the Lord’s Supper remembrance. They passed around loaves of bread and cups of wine and confirmed their identification with Christ’s death and the rest of the body of believers together. It was a confirmation of their common faith rather than an expiatory resacrifice of Christ. He died ONCE for sin and they remembered it in each fellowship when they met together.

[Elsie]

If I'm there and He says "take and eat of this, THIS IS MY BODY"....I'd take His word for it right there.

If you are NOT there; and He says, "You brood of vipers!", will you wonder what kind of snakes He was talking to?

[Elsie]

And Jesus was (is) fully GOD.

Rome’s Mary is almost GOD.

[Elsie]

Regarding the Eucharist, though, there is much evidence that early Christians uniformily believed that they were consuming the real body and blood of Jesus Christ.

There you go again; unable (or unwilling) to put a year on it!

[Elsie]

Oh?

A PASSOVER meal?

[Elsie]

Why would Jesus tell his disciples that He was going to EAT HIS OWN FLESH at a future date?

Luke 22:16
For I tell you that I will not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

[Elsie]

Luke 22:16
For I tell you that I will not eat it again until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God."

There's that until thing again...

Matthew 1:25 Douay-Rheims Bible
And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

[Elsie]

You have to look at what Scripture says ...

There's no need; for Rome has TOLD us what it says.

--Catholic_Wannabe_Dude(Hail Mary!!)

[rwa265]

I am out of pocket and have limited access. I will respond when I can.

Peace,
Rich

[Mark17]

Perhaps the reason catholiciism elevates the Mother of Jesus to perpetual virginity is because Jesus remained ever virginal.

As you know, I am an ex Catholic, but that is even a new one on me. It's been so long since I left the Catholic Church, so my memory is a little fuzzy on it, but I do not ever recall anyone ever saying why they thought it was necessary, in the RCC, for Mary to be a permanent virgin.
We were simply told that, and I was so scared that the priest might "retain" my sins, and send me to Hell, that I did not question it. I still do not, however, know why Catholics think it is necessary that Mary remain a virgin.

[Mark17]

I’ve seen your image, riding/standing in a boat, crossing to Hell atop the River of Stix. The painter’s name escapes me presently, but there you are, captured in all the horror the painter could muster.

One of the painters, among others, would be Joachim Patinir, depicting Charon taking lost souls to Hell. Pretty scary I would say. Of course, it is all mythical, and false, but I can see, some people hate God so much, they might be standing next to Charon, helping him row the boat, so they can get to Hell quicker.
That is pretty sick, but I think you can often tell who hates God, by who hates you. (John 15:18) I know when I was in that "other" works based false religion, I hated true Christians, till I became one. I am not into false religions anymore. 😀😊😊

[Mark17]

Catholiciism stamps as presumptuous belief that one is born from above in the hour of belief/faith in Christ as Redeemer,

I am eager to commit the "sin of presumption," which, of course, means I have assurance of salvation. You can see why I don't mind "committing" the sin of presumption, because I do indeed, have assurance of salvation. 😀😄😃
I don't know why false religionists don't want assurance of salvation, but that's on them.

[MHGinTN]

Brother, I would state that the greatest presumption is to presume a man can eat the divinity of GOD at a catholic Mass eating a wheat wafer transmogrified into the body, blood, SOUL, and DIVINITY of GOD. That presumption is blasphemous, reducing GOD to less than the man Christ Jesus, presuming upon a morsel of His body, blood, soul and divinity, as if a catholic priest can command God to fracture Himself and move from being 'no shadow of turning.'

[Mark17]

Amen bro.

[terycarl]

And Jesus was (is) fully GOD. Rome’s Mary is almost GOD.

No she's not, she is Jesus' mom...she has no Godly powers whatsoever, whatever she does, she does through her Son...

[terycarl]

Brother, I would state that the greatest presumption is to presume a man can eat the divinity of GOD at a catholic Mass eating a wheat wafer transmogrified into the body, blood, SOUL, and DIVINITY of GOD.

Isn't it amazing when Jesus does exactly what He says that He is doing!!!He said it, He did it, He promised it, and He has kept His promise.....are you that shocked???

[Mark17]

You know what, MHG, I am not 100% sure, but maybe we could safely say, that ANY false doctrines, could technically be called blasphemy. I would guess that anything that is not authored by God, is evil and profane, and authored by someone else, so maybe it would be blasphemous.
One evil doctrine, is necromancy. At one time in my life, I was a necromancer too. Once I left that false religion, I stopped doing necromancy.
One more thing bro. If you are going to cast your pearls before anything, please don't cast the at me. 😆😀😄😃

[MHGinTN]

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Isn't it amazing how easily satan dupes Catholics into the 'other religion' by appealing to the carnal side of them?

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

[Mark17]

Yes, isn't it amazing that the spiritually dead, are trying to tell the spiritually alive about spiritual issues. It can't be done. These issues are spiritually discerned, and can NEVER be understood by unspiritual people.
I couldn't grasp spiritual issues either, when I was an unsaved religionist. If they become born from above, then they begin to understand the mind of God, but if they don't, that's on them.
Now, if people are waiting for me to swim the Tiber, they will have to wait for all eternity to pass first. Sheesh, why would anyone wait that long? 😆😀😃😂😄😇

[MHGinTN]

LOL, indeed why wait so long?