Posted on 03/12/2016 9:36:07 AM PST by Salvation
Perpetual virginity
3/9/2016
Question: I am a lifelong and devout Catholic and have always considered Mary to be ever virgin. But recently, I read in my Bible that Joseph had no relations with Mary “before” she bore a son (Mt 1:25). Now, I wonder if our belief does not contradict the Bible.— Eugene DeClue, Festus, Missouri
Answer: The Greek word “heos,” which your citation renders “before,” is more accurately translated “until,” which can be ambiguous without a wider context of time. It is true, in English, the usual sense of “until” is that I am doing or not doing something now “until” something changes, and then I start doing or not doing it. However, this is not always the case, even in Scripture.
If I say to you, “God bless you until we meet again.” I do not mean that after we meet again God’s blessing will cease or turn to curses. In this case, “until” is merely being used to refer to an indefinite period of time which may or may not ever occur. Surely, I hope we meet again, but it is possible we will not, so go with God’s blessings, whatever the case.
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In Scripture, too, we encounter “until” being used merely to indicate an indefinite period whose conditions may or may not be met. Thus, we read, “And Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death” (2 Sam 6:23). Of course, this should not be taken to mean that she started having children after she died. If I say to you in English that Christ “must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet” (1 Cor 15:25), I do not mean his everlasting kingdom will actually end thereafter.
While “until” often suggests a future change of state, it does not necessarily mean that the change happens — or even can happen. Context is important. It is the same in Greek, where heos, or heos hou, require context to more fully understand what is being affirmed.
The teaching of the perpetual virginity of Mary does not rise or fall on one word, rather, a body of evidence from other sources such as: Mary’s question to the angel as to how a betrothed virgin would conceive; Jesus entrusting Mary to the care of a non-blood relative at this death; and also the long witness of ancient Tradition.
Well said. Perpetual virginity is a thin frame for all the robes piled upon it. Religions should be focused on higher things than reproductive necessities. The most viable reason for such focus seems to be what you have said: The human desire for a female deity.
God thinks so highly of marriage that He compares Christ and the church to a husband and wife.
Sex was GOD’S idea, not man’s.
It’s a good thing in the context of a marriage relationship and does no dishonor to any wife who has it with her husband.
Now, I'm not at all familiar with Catholic doctrine, but I do know the Bible. I never heard of this false doctrine. Yes, it contradicts the Bible. Jesus had brothers and sisters. (John 7:5, Mark 3:31-32, Mat 12:47, Mat 13:55-56, Mark 6:3) There's no indication that Joseph had any other wife than Mary.
You'll also find that Mary spoke with tongues in Acts 1:14 and Acts 2:3.
And you can be sure that apostle Peter had a wife, because Jesus healed her mother in Matthew 8:14-15.
There will be those that will say "brethren" mean "kinfolk", but that's a real stretch. You may was well say that "his wife's mother" in Matthew 8:14 refers to the mother of Jesus' wife.
There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among who were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.”
(Matt. 27:56; see also Mark 15:40).
James was a relative of Jesus - a more or less distant cousin.
It's important to realize that the Bible wasn't written in modern English.
'Brother' is often used as a translation of adelphos but adelphos does not mean 'brother'. A better translation - following the actual use of the word in scripture - would be 'kinsman' or perhaps 'close relative'.
Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s "brother" even though he was actually Abraham’s nephew.
Similarly, Jacob is called the "brother" of his uncle Laban.
From 1 Chronicles: Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their "brethren" - the sons of Kish. These "brethren" were really their cousins.
I think Mary should be revered but not worshiped.
ping
So what’s the big issue that Mary had sex with her husband?
Does it make her a better person?
Does it make her more holy?
Would it have been sin for her to do that?
How would it affect Jesus’ redemption of mankind if she had sex after He was born?
No. No other siblings were in existence.
Seriously: Christ on the cross ordained a new son for His mother. He didn't do that just because her other sons were stuck in a traffic jam in Damascus.
Adelphos means *brother* as in sibling.
The people in Jesus' day weren't stupid. They knew the difference betweev *brother* and *cousin*.
Mary of the Bible certainly did have other children...
Psalm69:8 I have become a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my mother's sons.
Matthew 1:24-25 When Joseph woke from sleep, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded him: he took his wife, but knew her not until she had given birth to a son. And he called his name Jesus.
Matthew 12:46-47 While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, “Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You.”
Matthew 13:55 “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?”
Mark 6:2-3 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, “Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands?”... “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?”
John 2:12 After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days.”
Acts 1:14 These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
1 Corinthians 9:4-5 Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?
Galatians 1:19 But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.
Strong's Concordance
http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm
adelphos: a brother
Original Word: ἀδελφός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: adelphos
Phonetic Spelling: (ad-el-fos')
Short Definition: a brother
Definition: a brother, member of the same religious community, especially a fellow-Christian.
Here is a link to the occurrences of the Greek word *adelphos*.
http://biblehub.com/greek/80.htm
The word *sister* (adelphe) in the Greek is the same.
http://biblehub.com/greek/79.htm
The word used is *brother* not *cousin*.
It can't mean a member of the same religious community in the context in which they occur, because then that would mean every man in Israel could be identified as Jesus' brother. So that would not identify Jesus as anyone in particular's brother.
It's not going to mean *brother in Christ* as that concept was not yet in place and the Jews, who knew Jesus as a Jew and knew His brothers as Jews, would not even begin to understand the new birth and what being in Christ meant.
They didn't even understand who JESUS was, much less being a *brother in Christ*.
The only definition left then, is to mean physical brother.
And it would not be *cousin*.
The word for *relative* that is used for Elizabeth is *suggenes*, not *adelphe*.
http://biblehub.com/greek/4773.htm
Strong's Concordance
suggenes: akin, a relative
Original Word: συγγενής, ές
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: suggenes
Phonetic Spelling: (soong-ghen-ace')
Short Definition: akin, a relative
Definition: akin to, related; subst: fellow countryman, kinsman.
Yes it was, and Joseph and Mary took it seriously. They had at least 6 children, maybe more.
I don't think they became true Christians until after the death and resurrection of Christ, and we don't even know for sure, if all of them got saved, or if only some of them, but I think Jesus' half brother James, was the leader of the Jerusalem church. If people disagree, that's on them.
In Galatians, Paul calls James the brother of the Lord. The Greek behind this indicates possession, belonging. James is the brother of the Lord. He is not some distant cousin.
Note also that James and John were common names at this time much as they are today.
Again, context is your key to understanding the Word.
Virtual son, virtual mother. We don't know all the reasons why, and it would be
impertinent and presumptuous to innovate a doctrine from this passage.
And what about Jesus’ brothers?
It’s very dangerous for a Catholic to read his bible and take it’s word over church tradition. They might end up disagreeing with the “Holy Father”.
The very term “Holy Father” should not be used of a man, Matt 23:9
Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant. She carried the Second Person of the Holy Trinity for nine months. Her soul and her body were - and remain - holy and united to God in an intimate way.
In the Old Testament the Ark of the Covenant was so holy that men were struck down for simply touching it.
How much more holy, then, is the living ark of the Incarnate Jesus Christ?
Understand that Mary brought Christ to mankind. She was set aside by God almighty.
People (and things) that are devoted to holy purposes are not suitable for natural purposes.
The sacrament of marriage is good and so is the procreation of children. Yet Mary’s condition and office as the Mother of the Son of God set her apart so that she and Joseph would not and did not enjoy the natural good of conjugal relations.
She was set aside for God. Joseph understood that. Other Christians have understood that for two millennia.
Believing that 'Mary and Joseph must have had sex' - with no evidence! - simply reveals a colossal lack of understanding of what the Incarnation is.
**Doesn’t the Bible say Jesus had siblings?**
They were relatives, not siblings.
You are thinking as modern man does — not as the people of that time thought.
Don’t you read passages from Paul that say “Brothers and Sisters?” Or “Brethren?”
Mary's question says nothing about remaining a virgin during her life.
Jesus commanding John to take Mary as his mother says nothing about remaining a virgin during her life.
Long tradition isn't Scriptural.
Wow. A truth claim.
OK, now show evidence to support your claim.
This is the false writing upon which catholicism has built it's false teaching on Mary.
You, and all catholics, would do well to research it and compare it to the Word. The proto has a lot of errors.
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