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Who Were the 144,000 of Revelation?
Off Grid Blog ^ | February 2, 2016 | Charles S. Meek

Posted on 02/02/2016 6:34:46 PM PST by grumpa

Even many Christians misunderstand Revelation. For some, Revelation is so bizarre that they pretty much ignore it. Others mistakenly apply the symbolism of Revelation to our present day. But Revelation is really not so difficult once you grasp the context and symbolic language. Remember, it is part of the Bible and there is little, if anything at all, in Revelation that is not found elsewhere in the Bible. Indeed, there are hundreds of references in Revelation to the Old and New Testament.

Let's just take a quick look at the 144,000 of Revelation 7 and 14. These were the FIRST FRUITS to God and the Lamb, not some later group! They were the ones coming out of the Great Tribulation. John, the author of Revelation, said he was in the tribulation AS HE WAS WRITING (Revelation 1:9), in the early to mid sixties AD. There are many proofs that demonstrate that the Great Tribulation was the persecution of Christians under Nero and the subsequent Jewish Roman War that culminated in the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70. And there are many confirming proofs that Revelation was written before AD 70.

There were twelve tribes of Israel, so the 144,000 can be understood for what it signified. The number 1,000 is symbolic of FULLNESS. So 12 times 12 times 1,000 equals 144,000. As the first fruits, the 144,000 represents the FIRST GENERATION CHRISTIANS (the righteous remnant of the twelve tribes of Israel) who experienced the Great Tribulation, culminating in the desolation of Jerusalem and the Jewish holocaust in AD 70! The 144,000 is clearly not to be taken literally, as, for example, Jehovah's Witnesses think. Romans 8:23; 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and James 1:18 further identify the first fruits as first-century believers.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Theology
KEYWORDS: eschatology; prophecy; revelation
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To: dartuser

Christ returned in vengeance to judge those who persecuted Him and did not recognized Him. They, and the temple/old covenant, were destroyed.


61 posted on 02/03/2016 9:04:47 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: PeterPrinciple

I would say the most too late moment would be revelation chapter 6 seal six. When it rains asteroids, not water, as in the days of Noah, or fire, the days of Lot. That paragraph ties together many prophecies and concepts from throughout the entire Bible.

And it is a great observation on astrophysics and orbital planes differences in binary planet structures. (/Teaser)


62 posted on 02/03/2016 9:05:51 AM PST by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: dartuser

+1


63 posted on 02/03/2016 9:18:49 AM PST by Pelham (Marco Rubio (R-Amnesty). Boy Wonder of the GOP elite.)
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To: Pelham
Who were the participants in the war of Armageddon since it must have occurred around AD 100?

Revelation says that Har-Megiddo is where the "kings of the earth" gathered before making war on Jerusalem. The original battle of Har-Megiddo occurred in the OT, when Josiah the righteous king died in battle against the Egyptians.

Anyway, the ancient seaport closest to Har-Megiddo is Caesarea (look at a map; Caesarea is almost due west), which is where Josephus says Titus marshalled his forces prior to marching on Jerusalem.

64 posted on 02/03/2016 10:13:49 AM PST by Campion (Halten Sie sich unbedingt an die Lehre!)
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To: Campion

The text in Revelation says that “the kings of the whole world” would gather there. And while Rome was certainly big it was ruled by one ‘king’, Caesar. The Parthian Empire sat right along its eastern border.

The Romans and Parthians had battled over possession of the Levant during the time of Julius Caesar but that was shortly before the birth of Christ. Seems odd that the “kings of the whole world” in AD 70 would omit Rome’s major rival within walking distance of Jerusalem.


65 posted on 02/03/2016 10:36:18 AM PST by Pelham (Marco Rubio (R-Amnesty). Boy Wonder of the GOP elite.)
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To: Pelham; grumpa
“Preterism holds that the contents of Revelation constitute a prophecy of events that were fulfilled in the 1st century.”

Likewise where is it recorded in history about the mark on the hand or forehead to buy or sell?

And where was the flesh of people consumed off their bones?

And when did the Israelites flee to Petra?

66 posted on 02/03/2016 2:00:52 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: metmom

“And when did the Israelites flee to Petra?”

I’m pretty sure that Petra is an assumption as to where they would flee. I don’t think it is mentioned by name.


67 posted on 02/03/2016 5:24:02 PM PST by Pelham (Marco Rubio (R-Amnesty). Boy Wonder of the GOP elite.)
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To: caprock

I googled Dr. J. Vernon McGee and found many of his broadcasts at oneplace.com. Last night I listened to his broadcast on Rev. 7:1 before going to sleep. I was traveling this morning and then his broadcast on Rev. 7:2-4 came on the radio so I was able to pick right up where I left off last night.

Thanks for the information. Dr. McGee seems to have a wealth of information.


68 posted on 02/03/2016 8:46:33 PM PST by boycott (--)
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To: impactplayer
Christ returned in vengeance to judge ...

This is how I know Preterism is false, and those Protestants who follow it are blind heretics.

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
 
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
 
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

69 posted on 02/03/2016 9:02:30 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

Yes, He will come again in glory to judge the quick and the dead. Nothing I have said precludes this. But He also came to judge those who persecuted Him and His saints. They asked Him, “Tell us, when will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?” Matt 24:3

Note: The close of the age is the end of the Old Covenant as described in Hebrews 8:13, “In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and becoming old is ready to vanish away.”

The answer to the disciples’ question comes in verse 34: “Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”

All we have to do is believe what Jesus said to his disciples when they asked Him this question and all becomes clear.


70 posted on 02/04/2016 5:57:34 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer

Quote -The close of the age is the end of the Old Covenant

It is fascinating that ‘today’, when Israel is to assemble for His Spring Feasts, the sign of 2 Fish is in His Sky overhead, when a couple thousand years ago, it was the adult Ram(Lamb)

And today, when Israel is to assemble for His Fall Feasts,the sign of the ‘Woman’ is in His Sky overhead, when a couple thousand years ago, it was a balance(a scale).

The old testament and the new testament in His Sky, set at His Feasts.

And we are nearing a change of that time too, a couple more wobbles of the earth, or one big one, and Israel will be assembling in the Spring for His Spring Feasts while the ‘water bearer’ is overhead. And in the Fall, for His Fall Feasts while the Lion is overhead..

Old testament- Lamb, spring/ Atonement Fall
New testament- fishers of men spring/Bride, Fall
What’s to come?
The pouring out of His Spirit on all flesh, Spring
And the return of the Lion from the Tribe of Judah, Fall

All up there for the world to see or to ignore. At His Feasts. His Heavens do declare His Glory!


71 posted on 02/04/2016 9:46:14 AM PST by delchiante
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To: impactplayer
But He also came to judge those who persecuted Him and His saints.

Your theology adds a Third Coming of the Messiah, which of course is false. Which denomination or sect do you affiliate with ?

72 posted on 02/04/2016 10:11:09 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

Where does it say “Second Coming” in the Bible. If you can show me that, I can answer your question.

Men have added words, such as Second Coming and Rapture, which are not Biblical and lead people to false expectations.

Jesus was clear in His discussions before Pilot, when He answered his disciples’ question about when this would happen, and in the first verse of Revelation: He would return with vengeance upon those who persecuted Him. Nowhere does this modify his appearance at the end of time.


73 posted on 02/04/2016 10:25:38 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer

You could answer the question now. Which denomination or sect are you affiliated with ? Are you too embarrassed to reveal it ?


74 posted on 02/04/2016 11:04:55 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981

Not at all - I am an Anglican (NOT Episcopalian). Did you find “Second Coming” in the Bible?


75 posted on 02/04/2016 11:23:59 AM PST by impactplayer
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To: impactplayer
Thank you for your straightforward response. I am persuaded regarding the Parousia of the Messiah from both the scriptures and the teaching of the one holy catholic apostolic church.

If what you teach were true, which it is not, the one holy catholic apostolic church would have been teaching three (or more) advents of the Messiah. This is how I know your teaching is false.

The glorious advent of Christ, the hope of Israel

673 Since the Ascension Christ's coming in glory has been imminent,566 even though "it is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority."567. This eschatological coming could be accomplished at any moment, even if both it and the final trial that will precede it are "delayed".568

674 The glorious Messiah's coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by "all Israel", for "a hardening has come upon part of Israel" in their "unbelief" toward Jesus.569 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."570 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"571 The "full inclusion" of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of "the full number of the Gentiles",572 will enable the People of God to achieve "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ", in which "God may be all in all".573

The Church's ultimate trial

675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576

676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578

677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581

76 posted on 02/04/2016 1:58:30 PM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: American in Israel

After much study, I have discovered the book is about the last days and the final consummation. It doesn’t fit neatly into our human concepts; so it is a story retold several times in the book (progressive recapitulation) to elicit a specific response if studied correctly. National Israel was a picture of the people of God. The saved have always look to Christ, even in the days of the picture we call national Israel and despite their having mostly types and shadows to guide them. They and we have to have divine revelation to see Him. God painted the picture, national Israel, in real human history because He is sovereign and He is glorious. He was showing what His election of a people and their perseverance looks like. The symbolism of Revelation can be used to deceive people, but it points to real spiritual warfare. This warfare is “more real” than our conceptions of the present world around us. Hebrews shows His final victory and so is very comforting. Last days and final consummation. Current (last days) and future (final judgement). That is the real timeline and anything else is for a devious purpose.


77 posted on 02/05/2016 9:53:56 AM PST by WKTimpco
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To: impactplayer

Jesus talked many times about coming again - i.e., a “second coming” - not sure why this is difficult to understand. As for rapture, see the following explanation - it is just a transliteration of a Latin word for a Greek phrase in the New Testament

There are too many people that fall for the secular worlds uninformed arguments - a little Google searching can help clear things up.

For the record, the word “rapture” comes from the Latin word rapturo, which is a translation of the Greek verb “caught up” that’s found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. You can call it the “pre-trib rapture,” the “pre-trib rapturo,” or the “pre-trib caught up” - it’s all the same thing.


78 posted on 02/18/2016 5:29:57 PM PST by utford
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To: utford

These 144,000 are called the “firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.” Rev. 14:4. If we are not the firstfruits (and we are not), then this had to happen before today or we have no hope. These are the Jews who survived the persecution of the early church - the firstfruits of salvation. And we, also, will follow.

I have no problem with “the rapture”, just with the belief that it sets up another new beginning. I believe that the work of Jesus is complete and needs to new phase. Satan has been thrown out of Heaven and is not longer the accuser before God.


79 posted on 02/18/2016 7:02:10 PM PST by impactplayer
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