Posted on 12/31/2015 4:29:48 PM PST by NYer
Taught by whom?
Who?
Right.... the Apostles who KNEW Christ. There's nothing in the Bible that says you can make stuff up out of whole cloth either -- yet, the RCC manages that all of the time.
BTW -- why can't you reconcile 1 Tim. 2:5 and CCC 969?
Hoss
Do you believe God is without beginning or end, eternal and not created?
You can't be a mother to God; that means God has a beginning -- and by extension, and end. God is eternal. Not created. Sufficient in himself.
Definitely -- let's get on point: Do you believe CCC 841 is correct? Do you believe Catholics and Muslims worship the same 'God' -- this is essential for our discussion; if you agree with Rome, then you cannot argue the point because you do not believe in God; you believe in Allah. If you reject Rome, then you are without standing with the points you're attempting to argue.
So, let's do get on point... God or Allah?
Hoss
please provide us with exactly what Paul told Timothy.
For educational purposes, do a word search on Tradition in the New Testament. You will find, depending on your translation, 13 references to tradition. Ten are in the negative against man's tradition.
The remaining three, when read in context, will clarify the use of tradition.
If you do a word search on "it is written" you will find overwhelming evidence of the reliance upon the written Word.
Recall that when satan tempted Christ, Christ appealed to the written word. Not tradition.
In the OT God gave His word in written form.
While the written Word does not contain everything Jesus or the disciples ever did, nor does it need to, it contains all we need to know on how to have forgiveness of sins and a relationship with God.
Why this is insufficient for the catholic is beyond Christianity.
Hoss
Hoss
You’re joking, right?
Good link and post.
Those who wrestle with the meaning of the Sacred Scriptures, who do not view their interpretation through the eyes of Faith, they don't understand what these words from the Word Incarnate mean.
The meaning is easy to understand and clear. Jesus was the oldest son and therefore responsible for his mother. His other siblings/cousins were not part of the faith yet. Jesus assured that his mother would be among the faithful. Anything more is injecting a personal opinion into scripture and using scripture to justify your belief.
The fact of God's eternal nature. The fact of his divinity and Godhood is not incompatible with the motherhood of Mary. It has nothing to do with the Motherhood of Mary. Since Motherhood does not entail authorship.
Why is a misshapen understanding of motherhood ruling your objection to this important Title of Mary?
If Jesus is God and Mary is the mother of Jesus she is the Mother of God. Its not that hard a concept. You've admitted Jesus to be God. At no point is he ever not God. John speaks clearly The word became Flesh--Jn 1:14
Jesus' incarnation inherently implies that Mary is the mother of God. This does not imply her authorship of his divinity. No mother is the sole author of her children. Its simply a basic concept, that in any conception of a child a mother does not conceive alone. Why is this so hard a concept? If Mary was the handmaiden of Christ's humanity she therefore is the mother of God.
Do you believe CCC 841 is correct? Do you believe Catholics and Muslims worship the same 'God
Why are you changing the subject? Please keep to the motherhood of Mary. Other things can be talked about, but I"m not skipping out on something which is extremely important. No human being save Jesus himself who Mary was mother to did so much for humanity. That is because Jesus who is God, is that important.
The Roman Catholic Church may see Mary as more than what Scripture tells us; that's the fault of Catholicism and a blasphemy.
As for CCC 841, it DOES have to do with this issue...do you agree or not agree with CCC 841? The question goes to determine which 'God' is being discussed: since the CCC teaches that Catholics and Muslims worship the same "merciful God" are we talking about God or Allah?
Hoss
Blasphemy. Yes. Definitely. But I fear you are wasting your time. The indoctrination of RC members is astounding, and it’s difficult for logic to break through that. As long as they discount the Bible as Final Authority, it is hopeless unless and until the Holy Spirit convicts.
Is that really your definition of logic???????????
98% of he people in the world couldn't read....there were virtually no books.
you have a vivid, and misguided imagination!!!
This is where you got things wrong about Catholic teaching. Clearly she is the Mother of God. The Motherhood of Mary does not mean she is the author of God. If we can say she is the mother of Jesus we can say that she is the Mother of God in the same way I can say God died on the cross for our sins. The teachings necessarily imply each other.
Your other issues are completely irrelevant to the question. Stop trying to invent them so. Its a poor excuse to dodge the real truth. You believe that Jesus is God, therefore you have to believe that Mary is the Mother of God.
It never ceases to amaze me how people like you 20-80 years of age think that they are better able to interpret the bible than the doctors of the church who have had 2,016 years to do so.....Protestantism was a scourge on humanity allowing people to believe that they had the authority to interpret scripture as they saw fit....PATHETIC.
Yet the Bible speaks here. John 1:14 The word of God was made flesh. Jesus who is the only Son of God--Jn 3:16 died for our sins.
Jesus is the word who died on the cross for our sins. He is God, and because He is God his efficacy is sufficient to save us.
What I think you have a problem here is with the realization that Catholics and the ancient Church has been right all along about the Blessed (Lk 1:48) Mother Mary.
As Jesus was never at any time not God, He always was God. When He became the incarnate word he became the Son of Mary who is by the fact of the incarnation the Mother of God. If God can humble himself to die on the cross (Ph 2:8) God had to be born into the world. These are the necessary communicable realities of one person with two natures both fully God and fully man.
It never ceases to amaze me how people like you 20-80 years of age think that they are better able to interpret the bible than the doctors of the church who have had 2,016 years to do so.....
God has written YOU a letter.................. Will you read it?
Pot, meet Kettle.
Hoss
Maybe; but you never know how or when the Lord will work.
:D
Hoss
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