Catholic ping!
(Just FYI - those characters I'm assuming are Greek letters, are showing up as garbled stuff here, sort of like the quotation marks on some posts.)
Without belief in the Eucharist, and Mary as Theotakis (Mother of God) and Mother of us all as Christ told us among His last words, there is no Christianity. Many theologians from several Protestant sects who converted to Catholicism make this a central point in their conversion.
Actually I think the good Father sniffed too much airplane glue as a child. His opening assumptions are Whacked, with a capital W.
The premise this was around for an extended time is questionable. If anything it shows how quickly false doctrine can infiltrate Christianity.
Most of the new testament was written to correct error in the church much earlier than this. That error, even persistent error had already found its way into hymns by 250-300 doesn’t surprise me at all.
I really don't understand the hatred for the Theotokos expressed by professed Christians. The only possible reason I can think of is that since Roman Catholics have such devotion to Mary, there must be something wrong with it.
This is one of our most beloved hymns in the Orthodox Church.
Here is a short (2-minute) video
which is interesting in that it is a beautiful choral setting by a Russian Orthodox composer (Bortnyansky) of a Greek hymn, sung by a Serbian Orthodox choir in an Orthodox church in Romania. (The point being that this hymn is known and loved throughout many regions of the world.
I hope that the many Protestants who reject so much of Roman Catholicism on political/theological grounds, are at least aware that there are hundreds of millions of Christians to the east who can provide independent confirmation of the practices of what really was the early church.
Sorry. A hymn to Mary is not “Christian”. Try pagan.
Nothing before 100ad. Never.
Even if that were so (which is still somewhat doubtful) there is insufficient evidence for prayer TO "Mary" be widespread in those times earlier than post- Council of Ephesus for 'Mary' to be the subject of prayer request that it be herself that deliver and "protect", etc.
If these were not so, then we would have all heard of it by now, instead of these strenuous efforts along the margins to assert that prayers to her seeking her own personal protection (as pagans would seek the favor of their gods and goddesses) were a thing widely approved of.
There is otherwise evidence to the contrary (of prayers to Mary seeking her own personal intercession) documented through Epiphanius writing against Collyridians who went beyond merely honoring the mother of the Incarnate Christ, to worshiping her as Queen of Heaven, thus singled out by Epiphanius as being one of the many heresies of his own time.
“Hail, Mary,
Filled fully with grace
The Lord is with you.”
“All generations shall call me blessed.
For he that is mighty hath magnified me : and holy is his Name.”
Yeah, 200 years seems to be about enough to 1) face pagan opposition; 2) take a simple expression by Elizabeth to Mary; 3) build all kinds of logical (not scriptural)extensions; 4) leading to a veneration that never crossed the minds of the apostles or brothers of Jesus.
Makes sense, too, that it began in Egypt, where Isis was the mother of the gods.
The word used to describe Job as “blessed” is precisely the same word used to describe Mary in the gospels.
"Don't you wish life was like that"
Good thing there’s no Protestant bashing going on on FR.
Right out of the gate.
Hymns to Mary, eh?
And Catholics claim they don’t worship her.
They just pray to her and sing hymns to her.
But, but, but, I thought Catholics didn't *worship* Mary.
Blasphemy.
Next question, please.
One of the things they definitely did NOT have was any devotion to the Mother of God. That was a late, Catholic, man made abomination! That was a much later pagan interpolation into the simple Bible based religion!
Except it wasn’t.
I KNEW IT...The bible is wrong...Paul and the apostles were deceivers, liars...I'm glad I found out before it was too late...
Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
It's all a big anti-Catholic lie...
Jewish tradition allowed divorce, But God hated divorce from the beginning. So why was it there?
Mat 19:8 Jesus replied, “Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended.
Just because it was there, doesn’t meant God approves. It is there because of our hard hearts.
Rev 3:13 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what He is saying to the churches.