Papyrus in the Rylands Library, Manchester UK
Posted on 11/06/2015 11:30:07 AM PST by NYer
Papyrus in the Rylands Library, Manchester UK
One of the things that maddens and amuses me about Protestants is something called “primitivismâ€. I’ve written about it here. “Primitivism†is the ambition to return the church to the simplest form as it was in the “early churchâ€.
The little fundamentalist church in which I grew up worked on this assumption. They were going back to basics and getting rid of all those “man made traditionsâ€. They were cutting out the denominations and prayers read out of books and all that fancy stuff and it would be just the Bible.
Their idea of the “early church†was, of course, what their church was like. They were actually ignorant of the facts about the early church, which is understandable as they were Bible only Christians. Consequently they assumed that the early church was just a group of Christians meeting in someone’s home or a simple building to sing songs and have a Bible study.
One of the things they definitely did NOT have was any devotion to the Mother of God. That was a late, Catholic, man made abomination! That was a much later pagan interpolation into the simple Bible based religion!
Except it wasn’t. This blog post outlines the fascinating discovery of the manuscript of the oldest hymn to the Blessed Virgin.Their idea of the “early church†was, of course, what their church was like. They were actually ignorant of the facts about the early church, which is understandable as they were Bible only Christians. Consequently they assumed that the early church was just a group of Christians meeting in someone’s home or a simple building to sing songs and have a Bible study.
One of the things they definitely did NOT have was any devotion to the Mother of God. That was a late, Catholic, man made abomination! That was a much later pagan interpolation into the simple Bible based religion!
Except it wasn’t.
Thisoutlines the fascinating discovery of the manuscript of the oldest hymn to the Blessed Virgin.
The earliest text of this hymn was found in a Christmas liturgy of the third century. It is written in Greek and dates to approximately 250 A.D.In 1917, the John Rylands Library in Manchester acquired a large panel of Egyptian papyrus including the 18 cm by 9.4 cm fragment shown at left, containing the text of this prayer in Greek.
C.H. Roberts published this document in 1938. His colleague E. Lobel, with whom he collaborated in editing the Oxyrhynchus papyri, basing his arguments on paleographic analysis, argued that the text could not possibly be older than the third century, and most probably was written between 250 and 300. This hymn thus precedes the “Hail Mary†in Christian prayer by several centuries.
Here's the text:
On the papyrus:
.ΠΟ
ΕΥCΠΑ
ΚΑΤΑΦΕ
ΘΕΟΤΟΚΕΤ
ΙΚΕCΙΑCΜΗΠΑ
ΕΙΔΗCΕΜΠΕΡΙCTAC
AΛΛΕΚΚΙÎΔΥÎΟΥ
…ΡΥCΑΙΗΜΑC
MONH
…HEΥΛΟΓ
Here it is set to music:
Turns out the hymn to the Theotokos (the God Bearer) dates from 250 AD.
What is very interesting about these comparatively recent documentary and archeological discoveries is not only what we can gather from the scraps of text themselves, but how they become part of a much larger puzzle. We can piece things together to build up a better picture of the true facts.
The hymn is clearly a prayer to the Blessed Virgin asking for her intercession and assistance in time of trouble. This shows continuity with the belief of the church down through the ages. I’m thinking “Mary Help of Christians.â€
Therefore, if this hymn to the Virgin dates from 250 AD we can deduce that it must be a written record of an earlier practice. Think about it, by the time something is written down for use in the liturgy it must already have been in use for some time. Furthermore, if this prayer is part of a document that is a copy of another document, then this also indicates that the actual practice is earlier than the manuscript itself.
In addition to this, if the hymn-prayer is included in the liturgy, then it must be something which is approved by the church and in practice on a fairly widespread basis. If it is included in the liturgy, then the term “theotokos†was not simply a theological term or a theological concept, but something which was integrated into the worshipping and devotional life of the church from the earliest days.
That argument also goes the other way: if the term “theotokos†was used in a hymn-prayer venerating the Blessed Virgin, then a high view of her significance in the plan of redemption must also have been prevalent in the theology of the early church.
You want primitive Christianity? You want to worship like the “early church†then Marian devotion had better be part of it!
Catholic ping!
(Just FYI - those characters I'm assuming are Greek letters, are showing up as garbled stuff here, sort of like the quotation marks on some posts.)
Without belief in the Eucharist, and Mary as Theotakis (Mother of God) and Mother of us all as Christ told us among His last words, there is no Christianity. Many theologians from several Protestant sects who converted to Catholicism make this a central point in their conversion.
Oh, mercy. And I’d say if it’s a hymn to Mary it’s not Christianity.
No hatred intended, I just sing hymns to God.
Actually I think the good Father sniffed too much airplane glue as a child. His opening assumptions are Whacked, with a capital W.
Where does Jesus ever say Mary is the mother of all of us??
I have been unable to post any Japanese since the apostrophe glitch arose, so the lack of Greek characters is not surprising either.
The premise this was around for an extended time is questionable. If anything it shows how quickly false doctrine can infiltrate Christianity.
Thanks.
This began a few days ago. Thought it was just me. Anyone know what is causing the issue and how to prevent this?
Nowhere but that has never bothered the Catholic church before.
Paul certainly warned about it. That was really early in church history.
Most of the new testament was written to correct error in the church much earlier than this. That error, even persistent error had already found its way into hymns by 250-300 doesn’t surprise me at all.
And when I tested Mary and Her 1st of 15 Promises for praying the rosary - she proved to contradict the Lamb, according to scripture. With her very first promise- and no lie is of the truth..
And He led me in the exact opposite direction! Out!
And have been so blessed to study and have the treasures new and old with regards to His Kingdom be revealed.
And it exposed Rome as a counterfeiter.
With a counterfeit Mary that points to a counterfeit Jesus and a counterfeit gospel..
Not something I expected in proving all things- but blessed to see it!
But scripture warns about false teachers and prophets and false Christ’s and other Jesus and other gospels.
Just didn’t expect to see how I was feeding the counterfeit, even as a protestant.
Truly humbling. But that is how Amazing His Grace is- I met Him as Rome’s Jesus and He didnt let me stay there!
I pray more ask,seek,knock and test and prove all things. The scales can fall right off..
HalleluYah!
40 And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
Did the early church know about the above? Not all the little groups necessarily knew about all the things that were later put in writing.
The above passage validates the "mother of my Lord" and the title Theotokos.
Funny, that's not what my Bible says.
Many theologians from several Protestant sects who converted to Catholicism make this a central point in their conversion.
Deluded fools won't persuade me any.
Don’t know the root cause is, but the end result comes from copying and pasting. Jim and John are working on it.
You can’t prevent it, but you can correct it by deleting or backspacing over any strange characters that you notice in the preview before you post, and replacing them by typing whatever they were — a double quote, apostrophe, or dash.
No, it does not. Jesus the man was born. The Deity is eternal and has no birth nor death.
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