Posted on 11/02/2015 6:56:55 AM PST by Salvation
Of all the things to question regarding my post... Yes, it was diabolic plan to see if you actually read the Bible. I should have followed your example, and posted verses in such a way to make it difficult for others to read them, or check the accuracy of what was posted, say like in an odd format, awkward color, or in an illegible font size. Dagnabbit, you caught me.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+2&version=AMPC
2 To the angel (messenger) of the assembly (church) in Ephesus write: These are the words of Him Who holds the seven stars [which are the messengers of the seven churches] in His right hand, Who goes about among the seven golden lampstands [which are the seven churches]:
2 I know your industry and activities, laborious toil and trouble, and your patient endurance, and how you cannot tolerate wicked [men] and have tested and critically appraised those who call [themselves] apostles (special messengers of Christ) and yet are not, and have found them to be impostors and liars.
3 I know you are enduring patiently and are bearing up for My name’s sake, and you have not fainted or become exhausted or grown weary.
4 But I have this [one charge to make] against you: that you have left (abandoned) the love that you had at first [you have deserted Me, your first love].
5 Remember then from what heights you have fallen. Repent (change the inner man to meet God’s will) and do the works you did previously [when first you knew the Lord], or else I will visit you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you change your mind and repent.
6 Yet you have this [in your favor and to your credit]: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans [what they are doing as corrupters of the people], which I Myself also detest.
7 He who is able to hear, let him listen to and give heed to what the Spirit says to the assemblies (churches). To him who overcomes (is victorious), I will grant to eat [of the fruit] of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
That is straight from Gateway which apparently has two AMP versions. I assume I have the older version on my laptop. Does not change a thing in my post either way. Scope of Revelation, context, and word use provides compelling evidence to the point.
I am not trying to claim anything. I am letting the Word of God speak. Do you have ears to hear? The Word declares that John was called to minister to the Jews (or circumcision - see Galatians 2:9 - James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.) This being so, who is John likely addressing in Revelation when he is discussing the Day of the Lord, establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth, and the 2nd Advent, all prophetic events most directly concerning Israel? Add to that the other evidence I presented and the case is quite solid. Was John being instructed to write a letter to an ANGEL (a divine messenger), or a messenger (Shaliach Tzibbur, of the Synagogue)? Why would John need to write to an ANGELIC Being as your new AMP version suggests?
They are not churches, but assemblies (ekklésia). The letters talk about works, which as shown in my earlier post, contradicts Paul’s letter to the Ephesians. SO, either this is addressed to another body, or another dispensation, or both. You decide. Or as Paul writes...
1 Corinthians 2:12-13 (KJV)
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
God’s Word is Truth. It is there to be revealed.
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Or as the older AMP puts it...
2 Timothy 2:15 (AMP)
15 Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.
Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Matthew, Catholic chapter twenty, Protestant verse fifteen, as authorized, but not authored,
by King James
That is straight from Gateway which apparently has two AMP versions.
I assume I have the older version on my laptop. Does not change a thing in my post either way. Scope of Revelation, context, and word use provides compelling evidence to the point.
Biblegateway lists an AMP and an AMPC version. Neither of them had the same translation you originally offered, which I see you have corrected here under protest.
I am not trying to claim anything. I am letting the Word of God speak. Do you have ears to hear? The Word declares that John was called to minister to the Jews (or circumcision - see Galatians 2:9 - James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.) This being so, who is John likely addressing in Revelation when he is discussing the Day of the Lord, establishment of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth, and the 2nd Advent, all prophetic events most directly concerning Israel? Add to that the other evidence I presented and the case is quite solid. Was John being instructed to write a letter to an ANGEL (a divine messenger), or a messenger (Shaliach Tzibbur, of the Synagogue)? Why would John need to write to an ANGELIC Being as your new AMP version suggests?
They are not churches, but assemblies (ekklésia). The letters talk about works, which as shown in my earlier post, contradicts Paul’s letter to the Ephesians. SO, either this is addressed to another body, or another dispensation, or both. You decide. Or as Paul writes...
Of course you are trying to claim something. Which Protestant restorationist movement do you assemble regularly with ? I doubt you will disclose that truth.
You are claiming that the seven churches in Asia were not churches, but rather assemblies of Jews because in your view the Apostle John was a minister to the Jews and the Apostle Paul was a minister to the Gentiles. It seems to me that you have essentially denied that the book of Revelation even applies to you ( presumably being a Gentile) and effectively denied it by claiming it only applies to Jews in some future period of time.
“I understand your answer as you do not regard Revelation as applying to you.”
That is a ridiculous response to my statement:
“That passage in Revelation is NOT what sets the context for a sentence found in 1 Cor 3...”
Why not just admit it: You believe the Catholic Catechism, and not the Bible.
Ah yes, your haughty arrogance spittles forth for all to see!
You did not quote the text, you either wrote your own or provided a mistranslation by another Protestant charlatan, and then you commented on it.
And I pray your read the Bible every once in a while as written, and become Catholic like me.
That is a ridiculous response to my statement:
“That passage in Revelation is NOT what sets the context for a sentence found in 1 Cor 3...â€
It is a logical conclusion as Revelation gives seven clear examples of the churches and the individual temples of the Holy Spirit within them. Your context argument seeks to exclude them, sweep them under the rug, as it were.
Why not just admit it: You believe the Catholic Catechism, and not the Bible.
Or rather, Why not just admit it: You do not believe the Catholic Catechism, nor the Bible, according to its entirety.
Instead of worrying about what church I attend, why not simply read Revelation for yourself, especially the first three chapters. Note the OT references, the Jewish idioms, the names used for Jesus that can’t be found in Paul’s prison epistles. So much has to do with the Earth, which prophetically belongs to Israel, while the Body of Christ is blessed with all SPIRITUAL Blessings in Heavenly places. Jesus is the Head of the Body or joint heir with Believers, in Revelation He is the Son of Man and King of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth. In this dispensation we are not contending with Jews who are of the synagogue of Satan - that language has no place in the Body where there is neither Jew or Greek.
It takes a whole lot of twisting and contorting to read the Body of Christ into Revelation, especially the assemblies being discussed in John’s vision of the DAY OF THE LORD.
Look at the title - The Revelation of Jesus Christ - Which group(s) need Jesus revealed? Born Again, Spirit-filled Believers who are made alive in Christ and seated in Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus? The nations (Gentiles)? Or Israel? Its not a complicated question.
I could keep going, but somehow I doubt it would make a difference. Your default position is that your religion’s opinion is always right. My default position is God’s Word is Truth. I believe I am on more solid ground, and would prefer to keep digging to know His Truth, even if it means setting aside religious traditions and sacred cows passed down through the ages. If it is not the inspired Word of God, it is suspect.
As I said earlier, ALL the Bible is FOR the Body of Christ. Not all of it is written TO or ABOUT the Body of Christ. One of the problems with religion is they like to pick and choose what they believe, often selecting and incorrectly applying verses that belong exclusively to Israel, to the Body of Christ. If you know who you are IN CHRIST, you will immediately note some significant differences between that, and what Is described in Revelation. In fact, they will contradict each other. How do you reconcile these differences without violating God’s Word?
Every jot and tittle is there for a reason. It is written to be revealed and understood, even by the simple. It is alive and powerful, just as much as when it was first inspired by God and written by His chosen instruments. The Word MUST be rightly divided. You will quickly end up in the religious ditch if you cannot recognize to WHOM a book is addressed.
“It shall greatly help ye to understand Scripture if thou mark not only what is spoken or wrythen, but of whom and to whom, with what words, at what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what goeth before and what followeth after.” ~ Miles Coverdale (1488-1569)
Should I worry if one attends a Pentecostal assembly that does not accept the Trinitarian formula for baptism ?
Your default position is that your religion’s opinion is always right. My default position is my opinion is always right.
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