Posted on 11/02/2015 6:56:55 AM PST by Salvation
All Souls’ Day by Jakub Schikaneder, 1888
I have blogged before on Purgatory. Here is a link to one of those blogs: Purgatory – Biblical and Reasonable. I have also written more extensively on its biblical roots here: PDF Document on Purgatory.
On this Feast of All Souls, I want to reflect on Purgatory as the necessary result of a promise. Many people think of Purgatory primarily in terms of punishment, but it is also important to consider it in terms of promise, purity, and perfection. Some of our deceased brethren are having the promises made to them perfected in Purgatory. In the month of November we are especially committed to praying for them and we know by faith that our prayers are of benefit to them.
What is the promise that points to Purgatory? Simply stated, Jesus made the promise in Matthew 5:48: You, therefore, must be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. In this promise is an astonishing declaration of our dignity. We are to share in the very nature and perfection of God. This is our dignity: we are called to reflect and possess the very glory and perfection of God.
St. Catherine of Siena was gifted by the Lord to see a heavenly soul in the state of grace. Her account of it is related in her Dialogue, and is summarized in the Sunday School Teacher’s Explanation of the Baltimore Catechism:
The Soul in the State of Grace– Catherine of Siena was permitted by God to see the beauty of a soul in the state of grace. It was so beautiful that she could not look on it; the brightness of that soul dazzled her. Blessed Raymond, her confessor, asked her to describe to him, as far as she was able, the beauty of the soul she had seen. St. Catherine thought of the sweet light of that morning, and of the beautiful colors of the rainbow, but that soul was far more beautiful. She remembered the dazzling beams of the noonday sun, but the light which beamed from that soul was far brighter. She thought of the pure whiteness of the lily and of the fresh snow, but that is only an earthly whiteness. The soul she had seen was bright with the whiteness of Heaven, such as there is not to be found on earth. †My father,†she answered. “I cannot find anything in this world that can give you the smallest idea of what I have seen. Oh, if you could but see the beauty of a soul in the state of grace, you would sacrifice your life a thousand times for its salvation. I asked the angel who was with me what had made that soul so beautiful, and he answered me, “It is the image and likeness of God in that soul, and the Divine Grace which made it so beautiful.†[1].
Yes, this is our dignity and final destiny if we are faithful to God.
So, I ask you, “Are you there yet?†God has made you a promise. But what if that promise has not yet been fulfilled and you were to die today, without the divine perfection you have been promised having been completed? I can only speak for myself and say that if I were to die today, though I am not aware of any mortal sin, I also know that I am not perfect. I am not even close to being humanly perfect, let alone having the perfection of our heavenly Father!
But Jesus made me a promise: You must be perfect as the heavenly Father is perfect. And the last time I checked, Jesus is a promise keeper! St. Paul says, May God who has begun a good work in you bring it to completion (Phil 1:6). Hence, if I were to die today, Jesus would need to complete a work that He has begun in me. By God’s grace, I have come a mighty long way. But I also have a long way to go. God is very holy and His perfection is beyond imagining.
Yes, there are many things in us that need purging: sin, attachment to sin, clinging to worldly things, and those rough edges to our personality. Likewise most of us carry with us hurts, regrets, sorrows, and disappointments. We cannot take any of this with us to Heaven. If we did, it wouldn’t be Heaven. So the Lord, who is faithful to His promise, will purge all of this from us. The Book of Revelation speaks of Jesus ministering to the dead in that he will wipe every tear from their eyes (Rev 21:4). 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 speaks of us as passing through fire in order that our works be tested so that what is good may be purified and what is worldly may be burned away. And Job said, But he knows the way that I take; and when he has tested me, I will come forth as pure gold (Job 23:10).
Purgatory has to be—gold, pure gold; refined, perfect, pure gold. Purgatory has to be, if God’s promises are to hold.
Catholic theology has always taken seriously God’s promise that we would actually be perfect as the Father is perfect. The righteousness is Jesus’ righteousness, but it actually transforms us and changes us completely in the way that St. Catherine describes. It is a real righteousness, not merely imputed, not merely declared of us by inference. It is not an alien justice, but a personal justice by the grace of God.
Esse quam videri – Purgatory makes sense because the perfection promised to us is real: esse quam videri (to be rather than to seem). We must actually be purged of the last vestiges of imperfection, worldliness, sin, and sorrow. Having been made perfect by the grace of God, we are able to enter Heaven, of which Scripture says, Nothing impure will ever enter it (Rev 21:27). And again, you have approached Mount Zion and the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and countless angels in festal gathering, and the assembly of the firstborn enrolled in heaven, and God the judge of all, and the souls of the just made perfect (Heb 12:22-23).
How could it be anything less? Indeed, the souls of the just made perfect. How could it be anything less if Jesus died to accomplish it for us? Purgatory makes sense based on Jesus’ promise and on the power of His blood to accomplish complete and total perfection for us. This is our dignity; this is our destiny. Purgatory is about promises, not mere punishment. There’s an old Gospel hymn that I referenced in yesterday’s blog for the Feast of All Saints that says, “O Lord I’m running, trying to make a hundred. Ninety-nine and a half won’t do!â€
That’s right, ninety-nine and a half won’t do. Nothing less than a hundred is possible because we have Jesus’ promise and the wonderful working power of the precious Blood of the Lamb. For most, if not all of us, Purgatory has to be.
We generally don't believe that the Holy Bible speaks in complete dogmas, like the Catechism. It is clear from this passage and several others that the work of Christ continues beyond death leading us to heaven. It is the job for the Church to formulate it dogmatically, and she did.
You may want to include your fellow FRoman friends in that. Many seem incapable of posting without profanity, personal attacks and blatant lies against those who would DARE criticize or disagree with Catholicism.
It is clear that the “day of the Lord” in that context follows death of the individual (for he can hide imperfections while he is alive) but precedes the entry into Heaven (for he is “himself saved”), so we must conclude it is his individual judgment.
“V. 9 says “You are [...] God’s building”
So therefore Christians — “every man” is both a builder and a building. You created a division Paul did not contemplate.”
No. It says, “For we are partners working together for God, and you are God’s field. You are also God’s building.” Two sequential word pictures, both of which distinguish between planter and field, builder and building. We / You. I do not create a division, I just quote Paul.
But since we are at the point of exhausted mutual disagreement, I’ll just post 1 Cor 3 and let anyone who wants to know read for themselves.
“Catholic read the Holy Bible in complete passages, not verse by verse.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! I gave a review of Chapters 1-5 to set the context for 3. Still, Chapter 3 has its own context, easily readable. Since I like horses, and don’t like to see them beaten, particularly when they are dead, I’ll give the context and leave the thread. Anyone who wants to know the truth can find it - by opening the Bible and reading it:
As a matter of fact, my friends, I could not talk to you as I talk to people who have the Spirit; I had to talk to you as though you belonged to this world, as children in the Christian faith. I had to feed you milk, not solid food, because you were not ready for it. And even now you are not ready for it, because you still live as the people of this world live. When there is jealousy among you and you quarrel with one another, doesn’t this prove that you belong to this world, living by its standards? When one of you says, ‘I follow Paul,’ and another, ‘I follow Apollos’ - aren’t you acting like worldly people?
After all, who is Apollos? And who is Paul? We are simply God’s servants, by whom you were led to believe. Each one of us does the work which the Lord gave him to do: I planted the seed, Apollos watered the plant, but it was God who made the plant grow. The one who plants and the one who waters really do not matter. It is God who matters, because he makes the plant grow. There is no difference between the one who plants and the one who waters; God will reward each one according to the work each has done. For we are partners working together for God, and you are God’s field.
You are also God’s building. Using the gift that God gave me, I did the work of an expert builder and laid the foundation, and someone else is building on it. But each of you must be careful how you build. For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid. Some will use gold or silver or precious stones in building on the foundation; others will use wood or grass or straw. And the quality of each person’s work will be seen when the Day of Christ exposes it. For on that Day fire will reveal everyone’s work; the fire will test it and show its real quality. If what was built on the foundation survives the fire, the builder will receive a reward. But if your work is burnt up, then you will lose it; but you yourself will be saved, as if you had escaped through the fire.
Surely you know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you! God will destroy anyone who destroys God’s temple. For God’s temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple.
You should not fool yourself. If any of you think that you are wise by this world’s standards, you should become a fool, in order to be really wise. For what this world considers to be wisdom is nonsense in God’s sight. As the scripture says, ‘God traps the wise in their cleverness’; and another scripture says, ‘The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are worthless.’ No one, then, should boast about what human beings can do. Actually everything belongs to you: Paul, Apollos, and Peter; this world, life and death, the present and the future - all these are yours, and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.
Is this a catholic caucus thread, or are we allowed to address the twisted magic thinking herein?
Generally, the distinction between man and his work is laughable. What do you think the people are judged for, color of their eyes? We are always, at all points, judged according to our works (Romans 2:6).
Verse nineteen of chapter six explicitly indicates the individuals, not solely the unity of those individuals in the church, are the temple of the Holy Spirit, so one cannot exclude an individual being the building.
I weary of my own sternness towards myself and others, but in my inner man I won’t budge from the free gift of God’s righteousness INDEPENDENT of works. If you notice, believers of all persuasions finagle works into the equation if only through the back door. If it was by works then we would have something to boast about, BUT NOT BEFORE GOD.
I’m vexed when I sin, that I still have to deal with some of the same sins I used to, that victory (as I experientially define it) is sporadic. Resting in the righteousness of Christ in the face of that IS work, the hardest work, the work of God to BELIEVE IN JESUS in the face of the Lie this fallen world tells us.
Catholicism, proper, holds no appeal to me...but Catholics do. I wish I could actually know some FReepers in this life (you being one) because I could learn so much. I get sad about the real people behind these discussions, about how we are missing the goodness of being of one mind. Yes, I’ll be at war again shortly, lol, but my sappiness is limited to affection, not hard Truth.
Also, when Christ was on the cross, did he tell the thief that he would see him in Paradise after he toasted a while in purgatory to cleanse him?
Nope.
Luke 23:43
And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
You will be WITH ME.
Exactly where those who are saved through his shed blood and trust him BY FAITH alone will be -- with HIM.
Hoss
Also...this “judgment” is something every believer goes through. What we call the Judgment Seat of Christ. However, Catholicism teaches not all Christians will go to purgatory before entering heaven. They say “saints” won’t endure purgatory because they were perfectly cleansed when they died because of their life on earth and how they lived in cooperation with God’s grace. Another example of the thick layer of obfuscation Catholicism must use to pervert the gospel and contradict the very word of God.
I can no more add to what Jesus has accomplished FOR ME, than I can add to the Creation of the Universe in the moment of creation. Behold, all things are become new.
God bless you and yours. Keep your prayer list growing.
Amen.
We did our part when we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
John wrote that when we who are alive when this return in the air happens will see Jesus as He is, really is, in all His greater dimensionality, because when we see Him we shall be like Him, transformed into higher dimensional beings rising into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
I see that as the Rapture, and not the second setting foot upon the earth when we shall be returning with Him for that mission He has planned for the Tribulation harvested Earth.
You are made complete through Him.
True, as the novel and unScriptural Roman premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility is their real basis for assurance of doctrine. For which premise they invoke Scripture to support, only to tell us that we cannot know what Scripture consists without an act of faith in Rome, and that thus we must accept what she says it means.
In appealing to those who actually do hold that Scripture is the supreme infallible source by which doctrine must rest, they must resort to appealing to ambiguous texts which speak of judgment for sins as support for RC purgatory (EOs tend to differ), yet which either refer to this life or to the lost in damnation.
So they appeal the apocraphal book of 2Mac. 12, but which advocate offerings with prayers for those who are clearly said to have died due to idolatry, which according to Rome is a mortal sin for which there is no hope.
Thus they must resort to special pleading that maybe they repented in their dying moments, but died anyway due to idolatry. Yet the offerings for them was that they may see the resurrection, which those in purgatory are assured of, not that they may escape from purgatory.
(2Ma 12:40) Now under the coats of every one that was slain they found things consecrated to the idols of the Jamnites, which is forbidden the Jews by the law. Then every man saw that this was the cause wherefore they were slain.
All men therefore praising the Lord, the righteous Judge, who had opened the things that were hid, Betook themselves unto prayer, and besought him that the sin committed might wholly be put out of remembrance. Besides, that noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forsomuch as they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for the sins of those that were slain. And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. (2Ma 12:44)
They also turn to 1Cor. 3:8ff, but which besides what you point out, only takes place after the resurrection at Lord's return, which is when rewards are given. , (1Cor. 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) versus purgatory, which has souls suffering upon death.
The fire burns up the fake stones, which like the tares of Mt. 13:40 at the end, are represented here as wood, hay or stubble, while the precious stones with fire-tried faith (1Pt. 1:7) endure, and gain rewards for the instruments of their faithfulness. Thus Paul says to the Thessalonians, "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? " (1 Thess. 2:19; cf. Rv. 3:11) And to the Corinthians, “we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.†2Cor. 1:14) And to the Philippians, that being “my joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.†(Phil. 4:1)
I don't like the CSI dramas and I have family members who love to watch them. I think it would be rude of me to tell them that what they like is stupid and that they should not waste their time watching those stupid shows.
I am a rather nice person. I do not tell people they should not believe something that they hold dear.
And if you cannot read between the lines from what I have just told you then I will not be rude and tell you the truth.
The starting Premise, not stated but so strongly implied in the Priest’s essay, is that God’s Promise top put His life in the born from above is not as God has stated it for us. The inference is that you don’t really get God’s life in you (thus the righteousness of God is deposited in your human spirit when He cleanses it with His shed blood) the moment you do as Jesus instructed ‘this is the work that God requires, that you believe in (not about, not contemplative, but an active word to believe in, as in allowing the action in your life walk) the One Whom God has sent for the born from above event! The Priest is trying to persuade that you must remain faithful to the catholic sacraments in order for God’s Perfection to eventually be yours. THAT is the blasphemny against what God has Promised. That is what lays putrid at the heart of modern catholiciism.
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