Posted on 11/02/2015 6:56:55 AM PST by Salvation
We generally don't believe that the Holy Bible speaks in complete dogmas, like the Catechism. It is clear from this passage and several others that the work of Christ continues beyond death leading us to heaven. It is the job for the Church to formulate it dogmatically, and she did.
You may want to include your fellow FRoman friends in that. Many seem incapable of posting without profanity, personal attacks and blatant lies against those who would DARE criticize or disagree with Catholicism.
It is clear that the “day of the Lord” in that context follows death of the individual (for he can hide imperfections while he is alive) but precedes the entry into Heaven (for he is “himself saved”), so we must conclude it is his individual judgment.
“V. 9 says “You are [...] God’s building”
So therefore Christians — “every man” is both a builder and a building. You created a division Paul did not contemplate.”
No. It says, “For we are partners working together for God, and you are God’s field. You are also God’s building.” Two sequential word pictures, both of which distinguish between planter and field, builder and building. We / You. I do not create a division, I just quote Paul.
But since we are at the point of exhausted mutual disagreement, I’ll just post 1 Cor 3 and let anyone who wants to know read for themselves.
“Catholic read the Holy Bible in complete passages, not verse by verse.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! I gave a review of Chapters 1-5 to set the context for 3. Still, Chapter 3 has its own context, easily readable. Since I like horses, and don’t like to see them beaten, particularly when they are dead, I’ll give the context and leave the thread. Anyone who wants to know the truth can find it - by opening the Bible and reading it:
As a matter of fact, my friends, I could not talk to you as I talk to people who have the Spirit; I had to talk to you as though you belonged to this world, as children in the Christian faith. I had to feed you milk, not solid food, because you were not ready for it. And even now you are not ready for it, because you still live as the people of this world live. When there is jealousy among you and you quarrel with one another, doesn’t this prove that you belong to this world, living by its standards? When one of you says, ‘I follow Paul,’ and another, ‘I follow Apollos’ - aren’t you acting like worldly people?
After all, who is Apollos? And who is Paul? We are simply God’s servants, by whom you were led to believe. Each one of us does the work which the Lord gave him to do: I planted the seed, Apollos watered the plant, but it was God who made the plant grow. The one who plants and the one who waters really do not matter. It is God who matters, because he makes the plant grow. There is no difference between the one who plants and the one who waters; God will reward each one according to the work each has done. For we are partners working together for God, and you are God’s field.
You are also God’s building. Using the gift that God gave me, I did the work of an expert builder and laid the foundation, and someone else is building on it. But each of you must be careful how you build. For God has already placed Jesus Christ as the one and only foundation, and no other foundation can be laid. Some will use gold or silver or precious stones in building on the foundation; others will use wood or grass or straw. And the quality of each person’s work will be seen when the Day of Christ exposes it. For on that Day fire will reveal everyone’s work; the fire will test it and show its real quality. If what was built on the foundation survives the fire, the builder will receive a reward. But if your work is burnt up, then you will lose it; but you yourself will be saved, as if you had escaped through the fire.
Surely you know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you! God will destroy anyone who destroys God’s temple. For God’s temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple.
You should not fool yourself. If any of you think that you are wise by this world’s standards, you should become a fool, in order to be really wise. For what this world considers to be wisdom is nonsense in God’s sight. As the scripture says, ‘God traps the wise in their cleverness’; and another scripture says, ‘The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are worthless.’ No one, then, should boast about what human beings can do. Actually everything belongs to you: Paul, Apollos, and Peter; this world, life and death, the present and the future - all these are yours, and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God.
Is this a catholic caucus thread, or are we allowed to address the twisted magic thinking herein?
Generally, the distinction between man and his work is laughable. What do you think the people are judged for, color of their eyes? We are always, at all points, judged according to our works (Romans 2:6).
Verse nineteen of chapter six explicitly indicates the individuals, not solely the unity of those individuals in the church, are the temple of the Holy Spirit, so one cannot exclude an individual being the building.
I weary of my own sternness towards myself and others, but in my inner man I won’t budge from the free gift of God’s righteousness INDEPENDENT of works. If you notice, believers of all persuasions finagle works into the equation if only through the back door. If it was by works then we would have something to boast about, BUT NOT BEFORE GOD.
I’m vexed when I sin, that I still have to deal with some of the same sins I used to, that victory (as I experientially define it) is sporadic. Resting in the righteousness of Christ in the face of that IS work, the hardest work, the work of God to BELIEVE IN JESUS in the face of the Lie this fallen world tells us.
Catholicism, proper, holds no appeal to me...but Catholics do. I wish I could actually know some FReepers in this life (you being one) because I could learn so much. I get sad about the real people behind these discussions, about how we are missing the goodness of being of one mind. Yes, I’ll be at war again shortly, lol, but my sappiness is limited to affection, not hard Truth.
Also, when Christ was on the cross, did he tell the thief that he would see him in Paradise after he toasted a while in purgatory to cleanse him?
Nope.
Luke 23:43
And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
You will be WITH ME.
Exactly where those who are saved through his shed blood and trust him BY FAITH alone will be -- with HIM.
Hoss
Also...this “judgment” is something every believer goes through. What we call the Judgment Seat of Christ. However, Catholicism teaches not all Christians will go to purgatory before entering heaven. They say “saints” won’t endure purgatory because they were perfectly cleansed when they died because of their life on earth and how they lived in cooperation with God’s grace. Another example of the thick layer of obfuscation Catholicism must use to pervert the gospel and contradict the very word of God.
I can no more add to what Jesus has accomplished FOR ME, than I can add to the Creation of the Universe in the moment of creation. Behold, all things are become new.
God bless you and yours. Keep your prayer list growing.
Amen.
We did our part when we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior.
John wrote that when we who are alive when this return in the air happens will see Jesus as He is, really is, in all His greater dimensionality, because when we see Him we shall be like Him, transformed into higher dimensional beings rising into the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
I see that as the Rapture, and not the second setting foot upon the earth when we shall be returning with Him for that mission He has planned for the Tribulation harvested Earth.
You are made complete through Him.
True, as the novel and unScriptural Roman premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility is their real basis for assurance of doctrine. For which premise they invoke Scripture to support, only to tell us that we cannot know what Scripture consists without an act of faith in Rome, and that thus we must accept what she says it means.
In appealing to those who actually do hold that Scripture is the supreme infallible source by which doctrine must rest, they must resort to appealing to ambiguous texts which speak of judgment for sins as support for RC purgatory (EOs tend to differ), yet which either refer to this life or to the lost in damnation.
So they appeal the apocraphal book of 2Mac. 12, but which advocate offerings with prayers for those who are clearly said to have died due to idolatry, which according to Rome is a mortal sin for which there is no hope.
Thus they must resort to special pleading that maybe they repented in their dying moments, but died anyway due to idolatry. Yet the offerings for them was that they may see the resurrection, which those in purgatory are assured of, not that they may escape from purgatory.
(2Ma 12:40) Now under the coats of every one that was slain they found things consecrated to the idols of the Jamnites, which is forbidden the Jews by the law. Then every man saw that this was the cause wherefore they were slain.
All men therefore praising the Lord, the righteous Judge, who had opened the things that were hid, Betook themselves unto prayer, and besought him that the sin committed might wholly be put out of remembrance. Besides, that noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forsomuch as they saw before their eyes the things that came to pass for the sins of those that were slain. And when he had made a gathering throughout the company to the sum of two thousand drachms of silver, he sent it to Jerusalem to offer a sin offering, doing therein very well and honestly, in that he was mindful of the resurrection: For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should have risen again, it had been superfluous and vain to pray for the dead. (2Ma 12:44)
They also turn to 1Cor. 3:8ff, but which besides what you point out, only takes place after the resurrection at Lord's return, which is when rewards are given. , (1Cor. 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) versus purgatory, which has souls suffering upon death.
The fire burns up the fake stones, which like the tares of Mt. 13:40 at the end, are represented here as wood, hay or stubble, while the precious stones with fire-tried faith (1Pt. 1:7) endure, and gain rewards for the instruments of their faithfulness. Thus Paul says to the Thessalonians, "For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? " (1 Thess. 2:19; cf. Rv. 3:11) And to the Corinthians, âwe are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.â 2Cor. 1:14) And to the Philippians, that being âmy joy and crown, so stand fast in the Lord, my dearly beloved.â (Phil. 4:1)
I don't like the CSI dramas and I have family members who love to watch them. I think it would be rude of me to tell them that what they like is stupid and that they should not waste their time watching those stupid shows.
I am a rather nice person. I do not tell people they should not believe something that they hold dear.
And if you cannot read between the lines from what I have just told you then I will not be rude and tell you the truth.
The starting Premise, not stated but so strongly implied in the Priest’s essay, is that God’s Promise top put His life in the born from above is not as God has stated it for us. The inference is that you don’t really get God’s life in you (thus the righteousness of God is deposited in your human spirit when He cleanses it with His shed blood) the moment you do as Jesus instructed ‘this is the work that God requires, that you believe in (not about, not contemplative, but an active word to believe in, as in allowing the action in your life walk) the One Whom God has sent for the born from above event! The Priest is trying to persuade that you must remain faithful to the catholic sacraments in order for God’s Perfection to eventually be yours. THAT is the blasphemny against what God has Promised. That is what lays putrid at the heart of modern catholiciism.
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