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To: Springfield Reformer
Point well taken. There were specific instances where bloodline mattered in the Old Covenant. But this is moving the goalposts. The original question had to do with identification of the ecclesia, not the Messianic bloodline, or the Temple priesthood, which was rendered obsolete by the Eternal High Priest, Jesus.

The chain of custody always matters. There is an unbroken chain of custody from Sinai until now. It is visible here in that the Apostle Paul ordained Timothy as a bishop and authorized Bishop Timothy to appoint other bishops to perpetuate the unbroken chain. There are three generations evident in the verse, and rinse, lather, and repeat, as they say, continues the unbroken chain until this day. The one holy catholic apostolic church has had apostolic succession unto this day.

Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier. And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Second Timothy, Catholic chapter two, in its entirety,
as authorized, but not authored by, King James
bold emphasis mine

Even Jesus denies the principle. You recall the "not one of us" disciple who went about driving out demons in Jesus' name, and how the disciples complained to Jesus that chap was not an authorized disciple, not the right organizational, human, carnal pedigree? And I am sure you remember Jesus' response.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. (Mark 9:39-40) Do you see the criteria here? It's very clear.

Yes, do you ?

They cannot be against us. Those who hate the Catholic Church are "against us." Do you ever rebuke them soundly so that they can conform to the principle you brought up (which is a very valid principle, BTW) ?

80 posted on 10/29/2015 9:32:29 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: af_vet_1981
They cannot be against us. Those who hate the Catholic Church are "against us."

LOL! No one here on the Protestant/evangelical side is against Jesus or the disciples. We just oppose those who would dilute the Gospel with error and divisiveness. Your rendering of that passage is far off the mark.  It is cultic self-affirmation, not analysis.

The one holy catholic apostolic church has had apostolic succession unto this day.

Baloney. No apostle, no apostolic succession.  After the original apostles passed on the Gospel to the next generation, there have been elders and overseers, yes, but no new apostles. Just like creation. The first six days God did His unique creative work, and rested on the seventh. Jesus created the New Covenant ecclesia during His earthly ministry, and launched it with his chosen apostles.  But it has carried forward into the present by a succession of those who follow the apostolic truth set forth in Scripture, whether only a few hiding in the shadows during times of darkness and oppression, or multitudes, during times of refreshing and reformation.  

But the chain of custody is nowhere guaranteed to be easy to see by human means. You cannot walk up to it on a street corner, read the sign, and say, aha, this is the place, because they have lists. No, the life of the ecclesia through the ages is created by an ongoing miracle. It is apprehended by faith. It is strictly the work of God, "what God has planted." We are invisible to the eyes of the lost, except as objects of irrational hatred. Only when God grants repentance and faith can the true body of Christ be seen for what it is.  Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The pedigree of truth. That's how you find the ecclesia Jesus is building.

Peace,

SR

82 posted on 10/30/2015 12:10:52 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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