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To: af_vet_1981
They cannot be against us. Those who hate the Catholic Church are "against us."

LOL! No one here on the Protestant/evangelical side is against Jesus or the disciples. We just oppose those who would dilute the Gospel with error and divisiveness. Your rendering of that passage is far off the mark.  It is cultic self-affirmation, not analysis.

The one holy catholic apostolic church has had apostolic succession unto this day.

Baloney. No apostle, no apostolic succession.  After the original apostles passed on the Gospel to the next generation, there have been elders and overseers, yes, but no new apostles. Just like creation. The first six days God did His unique creative work, and rested on the seventh. Jesus created the New Covenant ecclesia during His earthly ministry, and launched it with his chosen apostles.  But it has carried forward into the present by a succession of those who follow the apostolic truth set forth in Scripture, whether only a few hiding in the shadows during times of darkness and oppression, or multitudes, during times of refreshing and reformation.  

But the chain of custody is nowhere guaranteed to be easy to see by human means. You cannot walk up to it on a street corner, read the sign, and say, aha, this is the place, because they have lists. No, the life of the ecclesia through the ages is created by an ongoing miracle. It is apprehended by faith. It is strictly the work of God, "what God has planted." We are invisible to the eyes of the lost, except as objects of irrational hatred. Only when God grants repentance and faith can the true body of Christ be seen for what it is.  Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The pedigree of truth. That's how you find the ecclesia Jesus is building.

Peace,

SR

82 posted on 10/30/2015 12:10:52 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: Springfield Reformer
LOL! No one here on the Protestant/evangelical side is against Jesus or the disciples. We just oppose those who would dilute the Gospel with error and divisiveness. Your rendering of that passage is far off the mark. It is cultic self-affirmation, not analysis.

We ? I know you have self identified as a Reformed Baptist. Who do you mean by we ? Do you mean to include the others on FR who are hiding their affiliations in the shadows while hating the Catholic Church ? This is an antiCatholic alliance.

The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.

Matthew, Catholic chapter ten, Protestant verses twenty four to twenty five,
First John, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses eight to eleven,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
bold emphasis mine

The one holy catholic apostolic church has had apostolic succession unto this day.

Baloney. No apostle, no apostolic succession. After the original apostles passed on the Gospel to the next generation, there have been elders and overseers, yes, but no new apostles.

There has been, and is, and will be, an unbroken chain of custody in bishops appointing bishops, stretching back to the original apostles who appointed the original bishops, until the LORD Jesus Christ returns. Since the coming of the Holy Spirit at Shavuot/Pentecost, they have not been hiding in the shadows.

Just like creation. The first six days God did His unique creative work, and rested on the seventh. Jesus created the New Covenant ecclesia during His earthly ministry, and launched it with his chosen apostles. But it has carried forward into the present by a succession of those who follow the apostolic truth set forth in Scripture, whether only a few hiding in the shadows during times of darkness and oppression, or multitudes, during times of refreshing and reformation.

The apostles were part of the foundation of a very real and visible church:

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew, Catholic chapter five, Protestant verses fourteen to sixteen,
Matthew, Catholic chapter eighteen, Protestant verses fifteen to nineteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
bold emphasis mine


But the chain of custody is nowhere guaranteed to be easy to see by human means. You cannot walk up to it on a street corner, read the sign, and say, aha, this is the place, because they have lists. No, the life of the ecclesia through the ages is created by an ongoing miracle. It is apprehended by faith. It is strictly the work of God, "what God has planted." We are invisible to the eyes of the lost, except as objects of irrational hatred. Only when God grants repentance and faith can the true body of Christ be seen for what it is. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The pedigree of truth. That's how you find the ecclesia Jesus is building.

The chain of custody is guaranteed by the Messiah.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Matthew, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses seventeen to nineteen,
Matthew, Catholic chapter ten, Protestant verses twenty four to twenty five,
John, Catholic chapter seventeen, Protestant verses fourteen to twenty one,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
bold emphasis mine

83 posted on 10/30/2015 6:23:59 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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