Posted on 10/26/2015 2:22:44 PM PDT by NYer
Marcus Grodi’s pun for life could be “Done Roman” because when he was received into the Roman Catholic Church the former Protestant pastor had found his spiritual home and was finally “done roamin’.” Grodi was brought up in a nominally Christian home, trained as a chemical engineer and eventually, after a profound adult conversion experience, trained to be a Presbyterian pastor.
However, his experience welcoming new members from other Protestant denominations to his church began to disturb his Presbyterian certainties. Protestant pastor Grodi explained his Presbyterian beliefs from the Bible, but the other Protestant Christians responded by quoting the Scripture verses that supported their different convictions. Marcus began to realize that his interpretation of the Bible was filtered by his Presbyterian assumptions and traditions. Furthermore the same was true of the other Protestants. A conversation with his friend Scott Hahn helped him discover some Bible verses he had never seen before.
Scott asked, “What is the pillar and bulwark of truth?”
As a good Protestant, Grodi answered, “The Bible of course!”
Hahn replied, “But what does the Bible itself teach about that? Let’s look up 1 Timothy 3:15.”
Together they read the St. Paul’s words, “I am writing to you…so that you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.”
Grodi explains, “I had simply never seen that verse. I had no answer. If the church was the pillar and bulwark of the truth where could I find such a church? Clearly the thousands of Protestant churches with their contradictory doctrines and disciplines could not be that church.”
Another key passage was 2 Thessalonians 2:15 in which St. Paul writes, “So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.”
If the Sacred Scriptures were the sole foundation for Christian doctrine and discipline, as the Protestant doctrine of sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) asserts, then why was St. Paul telling the Christians in Thessalonica to “stand firm and hold fast to the teachings” he had passed on by both “word of mouth and by letter”?
Grodi was seeing for the first time that the apostolic teaching was not only in written form, but also through a living oral tradition. The Catholic Church was the only Christian body that affirmed both the authority of Scripture and a dynamic, ongoing voice of authority in the church.”
Eventually Grodi resigned from his post as senior pastor of a large Presbyterian congregation and was received with his family into the Catholic Church. In 1993 he established an apostolate to assist other Protestant pastors on the same journey “home to Rome.” About the same time he was invited to host a new program for the Eternal Word Television Network called The Journey Home. Each week Grodi interviews a convert to Catholicism, and over the years the Journey Home program has become one of EWTN’s most popular shows.
Grodi is more than a Catholic television personality. He has written or edited seven books and contributed to several others. In addition to the weekly TV show, Grodi’s apostolate sponsors conferences, has hosted a radio show, publishes a regular newsletter and works quietly and confidentially with clergy converts as they enquire about the Catholic faith.
He and his team at The Coming Home Network are in constant contact with an increasing number of Protestant clergy. While their work is approved by the church, they fund their work through donations, receiving no formal financial support from diocesan authorities. Over the years they have assisted nearly 1,000 into full communion from over 100 different denominations. They maintain a nationwide network of 1,500 mentors who have already made the journey and put enquirers in touch with a local friend who will answer their questions, pray for them and support them and their families in their quest.
The difficulties potential clergy converts face are daunting. A Protestant pastor who hears the call to become Catholic not only faces the loss of his rewarding job, vocation and livelihood, but also a huge upheaval and radical uncertainties. Usually the man has a wife and children to support, and has trained for no other career. Salaried posts in the Catholic church are hard to come by and without job experience outside the church, he faces unemployment and the rigors of re-training and rejection in mid life. Very often the man’s wife will not be at the same place of spiritual acceptance. Marriage problems develop and strains within his network of family and friends can develop into broken relationships, alienation and rejection.
We often think of ecumenism as consisting of no more than friendly talks with Christians of non-Catholic denominations. The Coming Home Network approaches the question of church unity with practical apologetics, pointed advice and practical assistance. They realize that unity amongst Christians is a reality when, one by one Protestant pastors come to accept the claims of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and take the first step on the long journey home.
To learn more about the work of Marcus Grodi and the Coming Home Network visit their website.
For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually. And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying, Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season; Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers. As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me. Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them. Thus saith the LORD; If my covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth; Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David my servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
We ? I know you have self identified as a Reformed Baptist. Who do you mean by we ? Do you mean to include the others on FR who are hiding their affiliations in the shadows while hating the Catholic Church ? This is an antiCatholic alliance. The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
Matthew, Catholic chapter ten, Protestant verses twenty four to twenty five,
First John, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses eight to eleven,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
bold emphasis mine
The one holy catholic apostolic church has had apostolic succession unto this day.
Baloney. No apostle, no apostolic succession. After the original apostles passed on the Gospel to the next generation, there have been elders and overseers, yes, but no new apostles.
There has been, and is, and will be, an unbroken chain of custody in bishops appointing bishops, stretching back to the original apostles who appointed the original bishops, until the LORD Jesus Christ returns. Since the coming of the Holy Spirit at Shavuot/Pentecost, they have not been hiding in the shadows.
Just like creation. The first six days God did His unique creative work, and rested on the seventh. Jesus created the New Covenant ecclesia during His earthly ministry, and launched it with his chosen apostles. But it has carried forward into the present by a succession of those who follow the apostolic truth set forth in Scripture, whether only a few hiding in the shadows during times of darkness and oppression, or multitudes, during times of refreshing and reformation. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
The apostles were part of the foundation of a very real and visible church:
Matthew, Catholic chapter five, Protestant verses fourteen to sixteen,
Matthew, Catholic chapter eighteen, Protestant verses fifteen to nineteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
bold emphasis mine
But the chain of custody is nowhere guaranteed to be easy to see by human means. You cannot walk up to it on a street corner, read the sign, and say, aha, this is the place, because they have lists. No, the life of the ecclesia through the ages is created by an ongoing miracle. It is apprehended by faith. It is strictly the work of God, "what God has planted." We are invisible to the eyes of the lost, except as objects of irrational hatred. Only when God grants repentance and faith can the true body of Christ be seen for what it is. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. The pedigree of truth. That's how you find the ecclesia Jesus is building.
The chain of custody is guaranteed by the Messiah. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Matthew, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses seventeen to nineteen,
Matthew, Catholic chapter ten, Protestant verses twenty four to twenty five,
John, Catholic chapter seventeen, Protestant verses fourteen to twenty one,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
bold emphasis mine
I can almost hear the crazed, maniacal laughter.
From Rome, perhaps, but from this end it is a sad sigh that God has chosen to blind the eyes of many. Yet, He is high and lifted up and His justice is perfect. Blessed be His Name above all.
But not yours, eh? Aren't you a special snowflake.
Sarcasm of the Romanists is common. They rely upon a false doctrine and hope the pope is right...he is not. Read the Book, my FRiend, Romanism is not there. But, TULIP is. Check it out...if God allows.
Well. this ground has been gone over a few times, so I will get off the merry-go-round until another time. But an anti-Catholic alliance? Really? You think that? Sigh. We don’t hate Catholics. We just love the Gospel. The unity we have, despite minor differences in denominational histories, is a shared experience of God’s grace and truth, and the working of His Spirit in our lives, and a love for His word. If the “we” offends you, there’s nothing we can do to alleviate that; it’s just ordinary Christian unity. Sorry?
But no, not really sorry. I am happy for my fellowship with other believers here on FR. Sure I identify with Reformed Baptist belief, but that’s only because that is so consistent with Scripture, not because I think there’s anything special about belonging to a particular denomination. Phooey on denominations. What we have explained many times before, and what you seem to resist accepting our word about, is that denominations are pretty meaningless to us. You keep pressing for affiliations, but our affiliation is with Christ, through the work of His Spirit, and under the tutelage of His word. We don’t do the whole “I am of Peter” shtick, because we don’t put our faith in denominational affiliation. That’s a counterfeit. We avoid it on purpose, not because we’re trying to be secretive, but because we really believe it’s better to not get hung up on that kind of trivia. I consented to reveal my affiliation to you because it seemed very important to you, and I wanted you to be comfortable. That’s all. Otherwise, I would just as soon say nothing about it here either, just like the others, because it really isn’t important. That’s how I see it. If you want to go all paranoid and see sinister motivation where there is none, what can we do about that? That’s really between you and God.
Anyway, have a good weekend.
Peace,
SR
It is to laugh. No one in the FR family of evangelicals, that I can recall, has ever indicated they are Oneness Pentecostals. No quasi-modalism here, and generally if someone wants to claim to be a Christian but rejects fundamental teachings of Scripture because of a claimed personal revelation (exactly the case in Oneness doctrine), then they can claim that all day long but "we" do not consider them evangelicals, because a defining mark of an evangelical is our willingness to subject our personal views to the supreme authority of Scripture.
And really, except for their anti-Trinitarian views, the Oneness folks are closer to Catholicism in some respects than "we" are, as they treat water baptism as necessary for salvation. They have deviated from the Gospel that defines what it means to be evangelical. They have gone beyond faith and repentance as the threshold for becoming a child of God in Christ, and so have rejected Scripture.
So I do see a problem here. If you are willing to expand the definition of evangelical into anything that is not Catholic, then that's your own, nonstandard use of the term. It is a classic "us versus not us" pretext for division, one of the more distressing aspects of these debates. I was once part of a group that had gone deeper and deeper into the "us versus not us" mentality until I reached a breaking point and realized, as Jesus taught in Mark 9, and Paul to the Corinthians, that it is wrong to look for reasons to be divided. There are plenty that will come up on their own. No need to add to that by drawing additional lines that can't be justified by the word of God.
So while I truly believe Rome is in error on several major points, my opposition to Rome is that of seeking unity with those who could be or could become my brothers and sisters in Christ. We wrestle not against flesh and blood. Y'all are not my enemy. Your beliefs don't line up with Scripture, and I'm happy to talk with you about resolving that. But God is the one who decides who belongs to Him and who does not. That's not my place.
Which is why when you go into this paranoia about "a vast evangelical conspiracy" (Hillary? Hillary?), it is pretty much a signal that rational conversation has ceased and nothing is to be gained by continuing in it. Especially when you appear willing to stretch the term "evangelical" to include whatever you like.
One last thing. I would point out it appears to me you are using your "pedigree of men" to define us, rather than the Biblical approach of a "pedigree of truth." This can only lead you into error concerning us, but it does appear to be the model you are using to process this information. This explains to me why you seem so curious about "hidden affiliations," when really we are just being ordinary Christians seeking unity.
Peace,
SR
Is it within the realm of possibility that your judgment is erroneous ?
Did I ever write that ? No, you just did and attributed to me. An ignorant reader might misunderstand. and accept that miscategorization of my comments with yours. If you want to withdraw from the debate you don't need an excuse, and certainly not one that posits your own words as mine.
“Evangelical” has always been an appeal to Christian orthodoxy, with a particular emphasis on soteriology, but consistent with the historic confessions. For example, if someone denies Jesus is God, they are not in that stream of orthodoxy, and therefore not evangelical, by doctrine. I do not assign them an eternal fate based on that. That’s above my pay grade. Way above. I do encourage them to repent of their error, and if you had followed some the conversations I’ve had here on FR with other non-Evangelicals, you would see I fought them with as much vigor as I fought any other assault on the Gospel.
Peace,
SR
People are stuck with having to make up their own minds, because we are finite beings and that’s just how God made us. Choose ye this day whom ye will serve. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. Etc. Your “judgment” is who you are. It’s what defines what you think and believe about anything. Denying it is like trying to deny your own existence. You and I may not be perfect, but in terms of looking at the facts and making up our minds, we’re all we’ve got.
The one thing that goes beyond this is the work of the Holy Spirit. I can watch you try to extract hidden meanings out of the Greek text that aren’t there, and I can decide to share with you how bad that technique is, or I can ignore it and possibly let someone be misled by it. But I can’t get inside your head and try to be a substitute for the Holy Spirit in your life. That is really between you and God.
Which is why I prefer to keep the conversations bound to facts and analysis. That way we can hold each other accountable for errors in judgment. I have learned many things having these conversations. I’ve grown. I’d like to think my judgment has improved. Iron sharpens iron.
So if you think my judgment on something is wrong, fine, let’s talk about that in specific terms. Show the error. Or if you can’t, withdraw the charge.
But it almost never goes like that here. If an error is demonstrated to a high degree of certainty, it is ignored, diminished, or the conversation is changed, taken personal, or some other tactic that avoids a direct confrontation with error. In every case in which I have changed my mind about a doctrinal position, it was not because I doubted my responsibility to make up my mind what I believed, but because someone made a killer argument I couldn’t get around. If you want to change someone’s mind, you have to actually win the argument on merit.
Peace,
SR
You wrote "Which is why when you go into this paranoia about "a vast evangelical conspiracy" (Hillary? Hillary?), " ...
To effect irony, without attributing quotes to me, one could write
Which is why when you write "antiCatholic alliance" it reminds me of "a vast evangelical conspiracy" (Hillary? Hillary?), " ...
SR, why bother with someone who has no indication of even reading, much less reveals an understanding of what you write. AFV may be the last person to deny blind obedience to his error-filled religion.
Of course, I know you are not writing for that poster's benefit, but are making loud the Gospel of Christ, which brings men (and women) to the foot of the cross!
To many Roman Catholics, the Word of God is more like garlic to a vampire! Yet, it reveals utter sinfulness and need for the indwelling of His Holy Spirit.
chutzpa
1. unmitigated effrontery or impudence; gall.
2. audacity; nerve.
I can see how you might have misunderstood me. I am sorry this has become a sticking point for you. I assure you I meant only to emphasize how similar your statement was to hers, in terms of the baseless paranoia it reflects. I apologize for structuring it in a way that distracted you from the central meaning.
The problem is, when distrust runs this deep, it is easy to read into someone’s words the worst possible meaning. I can also confirm my point had nothing to do with lying. As I said, in my mind this seems more to be a genuine but unfounded paranoia. I believe you are sincere, but sincerely wrong, about any FR collusion or broader evangelical conspiracy to attack Catholics. It is our love of the Gospel that stirs up our defense of it.
Peace,
SR
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