Mormon Leader: Kentucky Clerk Taking Wrong Approach on Gays

Associated Press ^ | 20 Oct 2015 | AP

[wbarmy]

The Mormon Church staked a deeper claim to middle ground in American society on Tuesday, advocating for compromises between protecting religious liberties and prohibiting discrimination, and criticizing Kentucky clerk Kim Davis for refusing to license gay marriages.

The Mormons chose Oaks, a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles that guides The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to give the speech. Oaks declared himself devoted to both church doctrine and the laws of a democratic society. But when conflicts between them arise and are decided, citizens of a democracy must follow court rulings, he said.

[wbarmy]

So Oaks is saying that when the court says something, we must obey. Tell that to the abolitionists. Tell it to the Covenantars. Tell it to the Moravians. But do not tell it to me, I ain't listening.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

I am very tempted to mock Mormon beliefs in my response. I will resist. Let’s just say, they are not known for being biblically sound, so...it is still sad since they used to be known for their family values.

[Another Post-American]

So when the government says kill all the Jews, we have to kill all the Jews. Mormons have put man before God.

[Mechanicos]

says that “every soul” should “be subject to the governing authorities” because they are “appointed by God.” If Christians take the Scriptures seriously, how can they refuse to “be subject to the governing authorities”? The answer is found in a close look at the rest of . Those legitimate civil powers are not to be “a terror to good works, but to evil (by the Bible’s standards).” They are to praise and encourage those who do good (by the Bible’s standards). Civil magistrates are to protect the innocent, and enforce justice.

When a civil jurisdiction actually becomes a “terror” to those who seek to do good, encourages wrongdoing, fails to protect the innocent, and does not enforce just laws against those who break them, then the civil regime has severed itself from accountability to God’s transcendent revealed principles, and thereby has lost its authority. It begins functioning out of raw power it seizes and arrogates to itself.

[wbarmy]

In total agreement, but when does that reach the level of “it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another”?

[RaginRak]

If the courts decree that all Mormons must be rounded up and imprisoned ?????

[windsorknot]

It is “gays” who take the wrong approach, not knowing which end is up.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Mormons: bringing cultic obedience to bad court rulings.

[Mechanicos]

Americans have traditionally risen up to fight tyranny to the good when the wicked physically move to eliminate the People’s ability to defend themselves. Revolution, Civil war one, WW2, etc all went hot when the tyrants to the good began to take/destroy the Peoples’ defensive weaponry.

[circlecity]

The mormon church really couldn’t understanding Kim Davis’ reasoning and position on this because it’s a Christian thing.

[jeffersondem]

One of the most hierarchical organizations in the United States is our military. It is not discussed much, but U.S. soldiers are trained NOT to obey orders - if the orders are illegal. It is always a tough call for a private to refuse to obey an order from a superior because it can result in his being shot.

Civilians are in the same difficult situation today in the U.S. It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.

[wbarmy]

Having served in the military for 22 years, I know of instances were soldiers did disobey direct orders which were illegal. For the most part, officers in those situations are usually reprimanded by their leadership. There is a lot of training at all levels about what constitutes a legal versus illegal order, and if the soldier is right about the order being illegal, then there is usually no blow-back. I do understand there are exceptions, i.e. some of the U.N. situations, but the vast majority of those situations are fixed in-house very quietly.

[Texas Yellow Rose]

Bump for later

[gtx960]

Oaks would have chastised Jesus for trashing the moneychangers’ stalls in the Temple.

[backwoods-engineer]

EXCELLENT, your #4.

[cradle of freedom]

The Mormons took a strong pro traditional marriage position in California, why the about face? Did the Mormon leaders see which way the political winds were blowing?

[Ransomed]

It’s probably still embarrassing that they gave in when the state dictated how they could practice their religion, and they obeyed the state by changing their official position.

Freegards

[Elsie]

But when conflicts between them arise and are decided, citizens of a democracy must follow court rulings, he said.

Wussiness STILL pervades the Mormon 'religion'!

[Elsie]

I am very tempted to mock Mormon beliefs in my response. I will resist.

I am VERY willing to expose MormonISM's writings and teachings here on FR.

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"Any Latter-day Saint who denounces or opposes, whether actively or otherwise, any plan or doctrine advocated by the 'prophets, seers, and revelators' of the Church is cultivating the spirit of apostacy..."

(Improvement Era, June 1945, p. 354)

 

 

 

Reinforced here......

 

MP3 File

This is the audio clip of Dallin H. Oaks, current Mormon Apostle leader, from the PBS documentary, "The Mormons", declaring unequivocally:

"IT'S WRONG TO CRITICIZE LEADERS OF THE (MORMON) CHURCH, EVEN IF THE CRITICISM IS TRUE."

 

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Don't criticize?

 

Dallin H. Oaks, Mormon Apostle 

 

 

 

And here:

 

Temple Recommend Questions:

 1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

 2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

 3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

 4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

 5 Do you live the law of chastity?

 6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

 7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

 8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

 9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other oblgations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

     Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?

     Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

 

 

 

 

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Oh, they can say that their leaders were NOT speaking for GOD when they said    WHATEVER    but that's NOT the same as criticizing!

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( Remember fellow Christians:  the Mormon's criticize US because they've been taught that they CAN'T criticize ANY of their leaders; so they HAVE to vent somehow! )

[Elsie]

Mormons have put man before God.

Ya THINK???

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What Joseph Smith Means to Us  (From: various sources )

 

 

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

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They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224