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To: HarleyD

“You apparently did not read the books listed in the article.”

I read at three of the four - including the one you mentioned in 1995. I read the Fulton Sheen book (Calvary and the Mass) between 2001 and 2009. The copy I had was a rare edition with dozens of black and white photographs of the Mass. I found it especially interested because I attend the Latin Mass so it seemed particularly appropriate.

In other words, as usual, you were wrong.

“Not only is this mostly untrue (Where was Joseph in the nourishing and support of Christ?),”

Straining at gnats again are you? Let’s look at the passage:

“It is she who has suckled Him,...”

Are you suggesting St. Joseph did that? Only Mary did that.

“nourished Him,”

Who normally feeds a child - the mother or the father? Especially when the father is working as a carpenter all day?

“supported Him,”

Does it say St. Joseph DIDN’T support Him? No. Tempest. Teapot.

“...brought Him up,”

Does it say St. Joseph DIDN’T bring Him up? No. Tempest. Teapot.

“and then sacrificed Him for us.”

Mary was there. St. Joseph was apparently already dead. Also, Luke 2:35 only applies to her not St. Joseph.

“but it is against scripture (Christ laid down His life for us-Mary did not sacrifice Him for us).”

She did in that she willingly gave Him up for the will of God. It pays to actually read the books rather than just blindly attack them. I’ve read them all. Have you?


76 posted on 10/20/2015 3:53:14 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Apparently I'm still living in your head rent free. At least now it isn't empty.)
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To: vladimir998
In other words, as usual, you were wrong.

Please note I stated that this was mostly untrue. "It was she who has suckled Him" is the only thing that is correct. So, no, I'm not wrong.

As far as "nourished Him", one cannot be nourished unless it is the father that provides. Consequently we ask the Father to "give us this day our daily bread". We don't ask our mother. And, as you point out, Joseph made a living as a carpenter and provided for his family. It was Joseph to whom the angel appeared telling him to flee with his family. It was Joseph who they reference when people said, "Is this not the carpenter's son?" (Matt 13:55) along with His family (Joseph, Mary, and (yes) brothers and sisters).

As far as Luke 2:35, of course it applies to Mary since Joseph would be dead by the time the prophesy was fulfilled.

As far as Mary giving up anything to God's will, this is Pelagism. We don't "give up" anything to God. God is the giver of all things that we have. We only give back a portion of what God has given us, and then it's because God has laid it on our hearts to give. One cannot even repent unless it is given by God. (2 Titus 2:25)

And, no, Mary did not control God's will. We can either submit to God's will or we rebel against it. It was predestined from before the foundations of the world that Christ should die for us. Mary submitted to God's will just as our Lord Jesus submitted to God's will. One can certainly try to rebel against God's will but as Moses, Paul and a number of other people have found out, it doesn't work. God will bend our wills to carry out His will. God didn't ask Mary. He told her what would happen. Mary submitted to God's will.

While I didn't do an in depth reading of the proposed books I skimmed through them at the post. I saw only little scriptural reference and most of it in adoration of Mary. But I'm sure the pictures are pretty.

81 posted on 10/20/2015 4:58:05 PM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: vladimir998
She did in that she willingly gave Him up for the will of God.

She had a choice????

She knew what was going to happen to Christ.

Mary knew the Scriptures as she had read and learned them.

Catholics would do well to emulate Mary in this capacity.

83 posted on 10/20/2015 5:18:09 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: vladimir998; HarleyD
She did in that she willingly gave Him up for the will of God. It pays to actually read the books rather than just blindly attack them. I’ve read them all. Have you?

Jesus didn't belong to Mary in the first place that He was hers to give to God.

That is enough nonsense that convinces me I don't need to or WANT to read any of that claptrap about Mary.

Scripture tells us all we need to know about Jesus for our salvation, to make us wise unto salvation, complete, mature, and thoroughly equipped for every good work.

89 posted on 10/20/2015 7:00:04 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: vladimir998
I read the Fulton Sheen book ...

More, good FJS stuff:

 
 
"A Plea For Intolerance" (1931)
 
Tolerance is an attitude of reasoned patience toward evil ... a forbearance that restrains us from showing anger or inflicting punishment.
 Tolerance applies only to persons ... never to truth.
 
America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance — it is not.
It is suffering from tolerance.
Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos.
Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.
 
 
 
Too many people get credit for being good, when they are only being passive.
They are too often praised for being broadminded when they are so broadminded they can never make up their minds about anything.


As quoted in Seven Words to the Cross (1979) by Ellsworth Kalas, page 93.

105 posted on 10/21/2015 5:09:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: vladimir998
I read at three of the four - including the one you mentioned in 1995....In other words, as usual, you were wrong.

I stated that:

You may have read them but based on your comments you certainly didn't comprehend them.
111 posted on 10/21/2015 7:41:43 AM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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