Posted on 10/13/2015 8:08:21 AM PDT by Salvation
This week on October 13 and 14th I am in Fatima. Such a profound apparition occurred there, and so accurately prophetic of our times!
Our Lady’s warnings of the consequences if we did not pray and convert have proven to be sadly accurate. She warned of another, more terrible war (World War II). She spoke of great lights in the sky that would serve as a final warning before the terrible war. (They appeared all over Europe just before Hitler invaded Poland, in the form of a stunning display of the Aurora Borealis.) She said that Russia would spread her errors, that the Church would have much to suffer, and she warned of a pope who would be struck down.
A final and belated prophecy from Fatima seems to have come in the form of a letter written by Sister Lucia to Cardinal Carlo Caffara. He had written to her asking for her prayers as he had been commissioned by Pope John Paul II to establish the Pontifical Institute for the Studies on Marriage and the Family. The year was 1981. According to Cardinal Caffara, she wrote back with the following:
[T]he final battle between the Lord and the reign of Satan will be about marriage and the family. Don’t be afraid, she added, because anyone who operates for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be contended and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue. And then she concluded: however, Our Lady has already crushed its head. [*]
Thus, from Fatima comes one accurate prophecy after another. Here we are today, locked in a terrible battle over the most basic units of any civilization: families and the marriages that form them. Fatima, the great prophecy of our time and a summons to sobriety and prayer!
Something else that has always intrigued me about Fatima is the name of the town itself. Fatima is a town bearing the name of the daughter of Mohammed; this is so stunning! Why of all places would Mary appear there? Is it just coincidence? If you think so, you have not pondered that everything about the apparition of Fatima is prophetic.
The great Archbishop Fulton Sheen, in his book The World’s First Love, reflected on its significance and posed a few questions. Please note that the book was written in 1952 and therefore some of the spellings are not the modern ones. Here are some excerpts:
The Koran, which is the Bible of the Moslems, has many passages concerning the Blessed Virgin. First of all, the Koran believes in her Immaculate Conception, and also, in her Virgin Birth … The Koran also has verses on the Annunciation, Visitation, and Nativity. Angels are pictured as accompanying the Blessed Mother and saying, Oh Mary, God has chosen you and purified you, and elected you above all the women of the earth. In the 19th chapter of the Koran there are 41 verses on Jesus and Mary. There is such a strong defense of the virginity of Mary here that the Koran in the fourth book, attributes the condemnation of the Jews to their monstrous calumny against the Virgin Mary.
Mary, then, is for the Moslems the true Sayyida, or Lady. The only possible serious rival to her in their creed would be Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed himself. But after the death of Fatima, Mohammed wrote: Thou shalt be the most blessed of women in Paradise, after Mary. In a variant of the text Fatima is made to say; I surpass all the women, except Mary.
This brings us to our second point; namely, why the Blessed Mother, in this 20th Century should have revealed herself in the significant little village of Fatima, so that to all future generations she would be known as “Our Lady of Fatima.” Since nothing ever happens out of Heaven except with a finesse of all details, I believe that the Blessed Virgin chose to be known as “Our Lady of Fatima” as pledge and a sign of hope to the Moslem people, and as an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, will one day accept her divine Son too.
Evidence to support these views is found in the historical fact that the Moslems occupied Portugal for centuries. At the time when they were finally driven out, the last Moslem chief had a beautiful daughter by the name of Fatima. A Catholic boy fell in love with her, and for him she not only stayed behind when the Moslems left, but even embraced the Faith. The young husband was so much in love with her that he changed the name of the town where he lived to Fatima. Thus the very place where our Lady appeared in 1917 bears a historical connection to Fatima, the daughter of Mohammed.
Missionaries, in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Moslems will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Mary is the advent of Christ, bringing Christ to the people before Christ himself is born. In any apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which the people already accept. Because the Moslems have devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and develop that devotion, with the full realization that our Blessed Lady will carry the Moslems the rest of the way to her divine Son. She is forever a “traitor,” in the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, bit will always bring anyone who is devoted to her to her divine Son.
A beautiful reflection by Archbishop Sheen and one we can surely hope will come to pass! Relations are much tenser between Christians and Muslims today than in 1952. But Fatima is the apparition that just keeps prophesying.
It is nothing less than astonishing that Mary should appear in a town with the name of Fatima. Surely this is no mere coincidence. As Sheen points out, Heaven does nothing without purpose. It is very clear to me that we are not to pass over this detail. “Our Lady of Fatima” has a different ring to it when we consider that Fatima is more than a place; Fatima is the daughter of Muhammad and the greatest woman in Islam. “Our Lady of Fatima” sounds and feels so different when it is heard in this context of person rather than place. It is hugely significant.
It seems clear that Mary will play an important role in the years ahead as the Muslim/Christian conflict likely grows sharper. Perhaps, as Sheen notes, she will be the bridge that connects two vastly different cultures; the common mother who keeps her children talking. Right now this connection seems little pursued, even (as far as I can tell) by the Vatican.
The Guadalupe connection – I wonder, too, if the history of Our Lady of Guadalupe presents some historical parallels to our current struggle with the Muslim world. In the early 16th Century in Mexico, missionaries had made only meager progress in bringing the Aztec people to Christ. This was a combination of the sometimes rude and cruel treatment of the indigenous people by the Spanish soldiers, and also of the fearful superstition surrounding the Aztec gods. The people were locked in with the fear that unless they fed these gods with horrific human sacrifices, their greatest god, the sun, would no longer shine.
Into this fearful and suspicious setting entered Mother Mary. The miraculous image she left in 1531 was richly symbolic. Her face is that of a mother: gentle and compassionate, unlike the appearance of the frightening Aztec gods, who wore fierce masks. Her features seem to be both Aztec and European, two cultures combined in kindness and peace. Her attitude is one of humble prayer, so she is clearly not a god(dess). She is a merciful mother who consoles and prays for us. She is to be honored but not adored. The black band around her waist means that she is with child and offers Jesus to the people. Her message is about Him. The sun was the greatest of the Aztec gods, so by standing in front of it, Mary shows that she is greater than even their greatest god. To the Aztecs, the moon represented the god of darkness and death. That Mary is standing on the moon is a sign that these powers, too, are defeated by the Son she bears.
Mary brought the breakthrough. Within ten years, over twelve million Mexicans came to Christ and entered the Catholic Church.
This history is paralleled in many ways today in the current tensions with the Muslim World. In many Muslim lands today, conversions are few. Part of the reason for this is a strong aversion to the Western culture from which Catholicism comes. Many Muslims also hold grievances due to alleged American and Western “mistreatment.” Finally, a large factor is fear. In many parts of the Muslim world, leaving the Muslim faith is likely to get one killed. So, it is a combination of a wide cultural gulf, grievances, and fear that keep conversions low. All of this is not unlike the situation in 16th century Mexico.
Is Mary key to this? It took Mary to bridge all these similar gaps between the Aztecs and the Christian missionaries. Might Mary also be that bridge today when similar gaps divide people? Time will tell, but one of her greatest modern titles is “Our Lady of Fatima.” And then there is the crescent moon, upon which Mary stands in the image of Guadalupe. In modern times the crescent moon is the symbol of Islam. By God’s grace, and with love and humility, Mother Mary of Guadalupe was victorious in overcoming the false religion of the Aztecs.
Might this crescent moon on which Our Lady of Guadalupe stands also point to our times and the crescent moon of Islam? Might it indicate that her victories, by God’s grace, are not at an end? Perhaps we can hope that what our Lady of Guadalupe was to the Aztec people of Mexico, Our Lady of Fatima will be to the Muslim people of the world.
As always, I invite your comments and answers to my questions.
Here is “Immaculate Mary,” sung in Arabic:
I think you just answered it yourself. You allowed that the Jews worship and adore the same God as you profess to worship and adore, albeit not with the full understanding of the truth. I believe you. The common factor is each of these three religious traditions professes to worship and adore the God of Abraham. All three also believe Isaac and Jacob were blessed and chosen of God. There is only one God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Messiah went to the Samaritans who also professed to worship the same God of Abraham as the Jews. The Samaritans were in error, yet they had a common reference point to the same God.
To follow up on your response, it is my understanding that both Arab Jews and Arab Christians use the term “Allah.”
Here’s my take on it.
If a Jew, a Christian, and a Moslem were all asked if they worshipped the God that is described in the Torah:
The Jew would say, “Yes.”
The Christian would say, “Yes, as revealed by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.”
The Moslem would say, “Yes, as revealed by the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him.”
God is the same, but we believe in Him in greatly different ways.
Jehovah is not Allah. No Christian should ever equate the two as the same.
There is only one I AM as revealed in His word.
I thought we were talking about the Muslim God of today. Did Mohammed receive inspiration (when he wrote the Quran) from the same God that the Holy Roman Catholic Church worships? No. Although Ishmael was the progenitor of the Arab people, Muhammad did not (after 610 AD at least) worship the same God as the Jews.
Today's Muslim is worshipping a different god from the one that Hagar trusted and believed. Their perspective, their understanding, their concept of God has changed. Allah is a significantly different from the God that the Jews and I worship in truth. The Jews knowledge of God is incomplete. The Muslim God is a complete distortion of the God of Abraham.
Their distortion is so great that it is not the same God I serve
Now, I understand your view. I understand your perspective. I don't agree with you.
We've had an interesting discussion and I sincerely thank you.
In a related note, I want to present a prophesy about Ishmael that has been fulfilled.
He shall be a wild donkey of a man, his hand against everyone and everyone's hand against him, and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.
Well and truly stated, sir.
The Origin of Islam: The "Previous Scriptures"
SOURCE
The origin of Islam is controversial. The "previous scriptures" mentioned above are the Hebrew Torah, the Psalms of David, and the Gospels of Jesus Christ (Sura 4:163; 5:44-48). The Qur'an accepts these books as divinely inspired and even encourages us to test its claims by these "previous scriptures." "If you have any doubt regarding what is revealed to you from your Lord, then ask those who read the previous scripture" (Sura 10:94). But this is where we run into a problem. The problem is that the Qur'an thoroughly contradicts the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospels. For example, the Qur'an explicitly denies Jesus Christ's crucifixion (Sura 4:157-158) while all four Gospel accounts clearly portray Jesus Christ as crucified and resurrected.
There's more there to see, but if I copy too much you may not read it.
On a personal note: I know you and I have great differences. You have been very gracious in this dialog. Thank you.
Do Muslims look for the arrival of the Maadi to come from a well and slaughter those who do not bow down to allah? Do Jews look for the arrival of this same Maadi? You ask some of the most inane and off course questions! Jews who do not yet (YET) believe in Jesus as Messaih are waiting for the Messaih. Islam is not waiting for Messiah, they are waiting for the maadi from Hell, to slaughter all non-moose slimes. You ought to know that at your age ...
Do you see what you wrote ?
I think the confusion stems from an understandable historical bias toward, and hatred for, Moslems, which is why I substituted Jews and Samaritans in the equation. Some/Most, but obviously not all of your Protestant colleagues will admit that they profess to worship the same God as the Jews (or Catholics) profess to worship and adore. Some will admit the Samaritans. Most would exclude the Moslems. There is only one God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and there are four religious traditions professing to worship and adore "The God" of Abraham (five if you count Reformed Christianity). Do all five worship and adore the God of Abraham in spirit and in truth without error ? No. Do all err equally ? No. Is one essentially correct ? Yes.
Regarding the prophecy I do not know what version that is and it does not quote the entire promise. One would miss the fact God named him with "El" on the name. And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur. And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me? Wherefore the well was called Beerlahairoi; behold, it is between Kadesh and Bered. And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael. And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.
Genesis, Catholic chapter sixteen, Protestant verses seven to sixteen,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James
Are you unable to answer the simple question of “Do you think you worship the same God as is worshipped and adored by the Jews ?”
Sadly, we’re back to tit for tat.
I don’t hate Muslims. Neither does God.
If your remark has to do with the capital “G” - it was a mistake. Should have been “ Muslim god of today”
There’s no confusion on my part.
Thanks again. We’re done.
Oooh. Nice editing. Let's have that again, but IN CONTEXT (seemingly a problem in Roman Catholicism)....
"They do not worship God in his totality; they do not believe in God the Son. So, in that case, they do not worship the same God in that they do not believe in the Trinity. But they worship the one true living God, be it imperfectly."
Now... do Roman Catholics worship the same "God" as Muslims, as is stated in CCC 841, knowing that Muslims do not worship the God of Judeo-Christianity?
Can you answer that?
Hoss
Yes, Allah has the definite article (Al) and means "The God." It is the word for God in Arabic, similar to how El/Elohim are the words for God in Hebrew. These are words are combined with other words to form compound descriptive names like El Shaddai, El Elyon, etc. The personal name that God gave Moses is unique, the so/called Tetragrammaton. I find it strange that the pronunciation was forgotten and it is shrouded in mystery until the Messiah comes (again).
Now... do Roman Catholics worship the same "God" as Muslims, as is stated in CCC 841, knowing that Muslims do not worship the God of Judeo-Christianity?
Can you answer that?
Catholics worship and adore the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who is "The God" that both the Jews and Moslems (as well as others like the Samaritans) also profess to worship and adore. There is only One God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. There is only one begotten Son of God. There is only one Messiah. His name in English is Jesus and He is coming to judge the living and the dead. Of his kingdom there will be no end. There is only one holy catholic apostolic church. If you imagine otherwise you are mistaken.
Define reject.
Define "accept as elder brethren".
Do catholics also recognize muslims as "elder" brethren?
If anyone professes faith in Christ, they are received by other Christians. Be they Jew or Gentile.
You know, roman catholics could clear up a lot of confusion if you dropped CCC 841.
To this day, I still haven't see a satisfactory answer as to why that was included in the CCC.
There is only one holy catholic apostolic church. If you imagine otherwise you are mistaken.
And it is not found in the RCC as we see today due to the utter reliance on Mary for salvation and the advancement of her as mediatrix, advocate, etc.
Do you think you worship the same God as is worshipped and adored by the Jews ?”
Do you think you worship the same God as is worshipped and adored by the Jews ?”
What a puerile attempt at argument!
First, the idea that Protestants reject Jews goes against Scripture. But, of course, we expect ignorance of Scripture from Roman Catholic cultists. I have not found many that spend much time "studying to show themselves approved:. They have too many obligations to their traditions. Praying repetitious words, and playing with beads, while bowing to idols is their strong suit!
Anyone that believes that those apparitions are of God probably believes in the Easter Bunny, as well! God will not be mocked, no matter how old an organization claims to be!!!
Ephesians 1: 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Does that mean you think you worship the same God as is worshipped and adored by the Jews ?”
You mean as in below? The answer is yes as God in the OT is the same in the NT. He doesn't change.
In John 8:58 Jesus told the Jews, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
•El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
•El Elyon (The Most High God)
•Adonai (Lord, Master)
•Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
•Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner)
•Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd)
•Jehovah Rapha (The Lord That Heals)
•Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)
•Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
•Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
•El Olam (The Everlasting God)
•Elohim (God)
•Qanna (Jealous)
•Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
•Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
•Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)
https://www.blueletterbible.org/study/misc/name_god.cfm
The observant reader will note, Allah is none of the above.
So the question still remains....do catholics and muslims adore the same God??
What kind of ignorant question is that? Scripture is clear. Try studying it! Your futile attempts at argument fall on deaf ears, when not backed by Scripture to support all your drek!
Romans 2: 28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
Hoss, he’s stuck. If he says “yes” (and conforms to the teaching of the Holy Roman Catholic Church), then he’ll have to admit that he has no problem with the 5 pillars:
1. A Muslim must recite the basic creed, “There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His prophet.”
2. He must recite prayers praising Allah five times a day while facing Mecca where, it is believed, Allah revealed the Koran to Muhammad.
3. He must give money to the poor.
4. He must fast for one month every year.
5. He must make a pilgrimage to Mecca at least once in his lifetime.
IF he has no problem agreeing to these things - and doing them himself, THEN he is following the teaching of the Holy Roman Catholic Church.
If he has a problem with the 5 pillars, then he is worshipping a god that is different from the Muslim god.
He keeps asking US about the God of the Jews. He keeps avoiding the basic question.
I entertained his charade, but his cooperation was feigned.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.