Posted on 08/24/2015 11:58:39 AM PDT by damonw
*******THERE ARE MANY IMPORTANT LINKS EMBEDDED IN THE POST.
ARE THERE REALLY 38,000 DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS? by Damon Whitsell
Is Christianity really as divided as some people say it is? Are there really around 38,000 differing denominations? These questions are relevant to the Word of Faith movement because its teachers can be quite anti-denominational at times. And since some in the Word of Faith movement such as Kenneth Copeland and Joel Osteen along with the Pope and many others are calling for Charismatics and the Roman Catholic Church to unite, saying the Protestant protest is over, these questions are really important – especially since some claim protestants are “spiritual racist” if they do not desire to unite with the Catholic Church. So I am posting my article answering these questions here for the readers of this blog.
ARE THERE REALLY 38,000 DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS?
That there are that many denominations is a lie created and propagated by Roman Catholic Apologist claiming there are 38,000 differing “Protestant denominations”. They make this claim to say that the Sola Scriptura of the Protestant Reformation is divisive in nature, protestants are divided so therefore they must be the One True Church. This lie is then repeated by other groups and while the specific number of denominations that may be claimed can be higher or lower than the 38,000 number, this false claim is made often by many groups who claim to be the One True Church.
Roman Catholic apologist get their numbers from the “World Christian Encyclopedia” (WCE) by David B. Barrett. Because the 2,400 page, 2-volume WCE is $320 new, we will have to rely on secondary sources to see why the 38,000 denomination claim is nowhere near true. The two sources we will look at are a book written by a Protestant called “Upon This Slippery Rock: Countering Roman Catholic Claims to Authority” by Eric Svendsen (see an applicable excerpt here), and a “Facts and Stats Sheet” provided by a RCC Apologist where much of the info in the WCE is detailed for us to see. To grasp what I am about to say might require you to spend sometime looking at those last two links. I will refer to these resources as the “Protestant resource” and the “RCC Resource”.
It is readily apparent after studying the RCC resource that the WCE is not really a good resource to determine how many Christian denominations there actually are. Denominations are not defined correctly and are categorized by country, race and other non-helpful sub-categories to show a way over-bloated result.
The RCC resource says the statistics are subdivided into “6 major ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs”. Those mega-blocs are Independents (about 22000), Protestants (about 9000), “Marginals” (about 1600), Orthodox (781), Roman Catholics (242) and Anglicans (168). When looking at the first “mega-bloc” we see there are not really 22,000 “independent denominations” there. To come to the 22, 000 number they include “single autonomous congregations”, “isolated radio churches”, “house-church networks” and they use race as a sub-category. In other words there are African, Black American, Filipino, and Indian Apostolics and there are African, Black American and Chinese Charismatics etc. The categories are inappropriate to determine how many denominations there are because they even include “hidden Buddhist believers in Christ” and “hidden Hindu believers in Christ”. All of these 6 major mega-blocs of information have the same problems. And the “marginal” category with “about 1600 denominations” are not really Christian denominations, but Christian pseudo Cults.
To get a better understanding of how many denominations there really are let’s refer to the Protestant resource by Eric Svendsen. Svendsen says in his book Upon This Slippery Rock, “Barrett identifies seven major ecclesiastical “blocs” under which these 22,190 distinct denominations fall (Barrett, 14-15): (1) Roman Catholicism, which accounts for 223 denominations; (2) Protestant, which accounts for 8,196 denominations; (3) Orthodox, which accounts for 580 denominations; (4) Non-White Indigenous, which accounts for 10,956 denominations; (5) Anglican, which accounts for 240 denominations; (6) Marginal Protestant, which includes Jehovah s Witnesses, Mormons, New Age groups, and all cults (Barrett, 14), and which accounts for 1,490 denominations; and (7) Catholic (Non-Roman), which accounts for 504 denominations”.
Svendsen then says “Barrett indicates that what he means by “denomination” is any ecclesial body that retains a “jurisdiction” (i.e., semi-autonomy). As an example, Baptist denominations comprise approximately 321 of the total Protestant figure. In other words, if there are ten Independent Baptist churches in a given city, even though all of them are identical in belief and practice, each one is counted as a separate denomination due to its autonomy in jurisdiction. This same principle applies to all independent or semi-independent denominations. And even beyond this, all Independent Baptist denominations are counted separately from all other Baptist denominations, even though there might not be a dime’s worth of difference among them. The same principle is operative in Barrett’s count of Roman Catholic denominations. He cites 194 Latin-rite denominations in 1970, by which Barrett means separate jurisdictions (or diocese). Again, a distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices”.
“However Barrett has defined “denomination,” it is clear that he does not think of these as major distinctions; for that is something he reserves for another category. In addition to the seven major ecclesiastical “blocs” (mentioned above), Barrett breaks down each of these traditions into smaller units that might have significant differences (what he calls “major ecclesiastical traditions,” and what we might normally call a true denomination) (Barrett, 14). Referring again to our seven major ecclesiastical “blocs” (mentioned above, but this time in reverse order): For (1) Catholic (Non-Roman), there are four traditions, including Catholic Apostolic, Reformed Catholic, Old Catholic, and Conservative Catholic; for (2) Marginal Protestants, there are six traditions; for (3) Anglican, there are six traditions; for (4) Non-White Indigenous, which encompasses third-world peoples (among whom can be found traces of Christianity mixed with the major tenets of their indigenous pagan religions), there are twenty traditions, including a branch of Reformed Catholic and a branch of Conservative Catholic; for (5) Orthodox, there are nineteen traditions; for (6) Protestant, there are twenty-one traditions; and for (7) Roman Catholic, there are sixteen traditions, including Latin-rite local, Latin-rite catholic, Latin/Eastern-rite local, Latin/Eastern-rite catholic, Syro-Malabarese, Ukrainian, Romanian, Maronite, Melkite, Chaldean, Ruthenian, Hungarian, plural Oriental rites, Syro-Malankarese, Slovak, and Coptic. It is important to note here that Barrett places these sixteen Roman Catholic traditions (i.e., true denominations) on the very same level as the twenty-one Protestant traditions (i.e., true denominations). In other words, the true count of real denominations within Protestantism is twenty-one, whereas the true count of real denominations within Roman Catholic is sixteen. Combined with the other major ecclesiastical blocs, that puts the total number of actual denominations in the world at ninety-two obviously nowhere near the 23,000 or 25,000 figure that Roman Catholic apologists constantly assert and that figure of ninety-two denominations includes the sixteen denominations of Roman Catholicism (Barrett, 15)!”
To put this into perspective the Protestant resource goes on to say “Roman Catholic apologists have hurriedly, carelessly – and, as a result, irresponsibly – glanced at Barrett’s work, found a large number (22,189), and arrived at all sorts of absurdities that Barrett never concluded”.
To sum up, it is obvious that we cannot determine if the WCE is a good resource to refer to when trying to determine the number of Christian denominations there are actually in the world without buying the massive encyclopedia and studying it in full detail. Without looking at the WCE for ourselves and having to rely on these two best resources I found we cannot know for sure that he is correct when Svendsen’s Protestant resource says that Barret and the WCE went on to further define the number of denominations by defining traditions and “major ecclesiastical traditions” separately to come up with his number of “ninety-two actual denominations”. But that number seems allot more possible and plausible than the obviously over-inflated numbers that RCC apologist and other exclusive authoritarian groups irresponsibly throw around. After all how did you answer the question of “If I were to ask you exactly how many different churches exist in the world today… what would you say?“. You probably guessed allot but not 38,000 denominations “all teaching opposite things”. I thought of less than a dozen differing denominations off the top of my head. How about you?
A number of years ago I lived in a small town in Central New York. On one corner was the white Baptist church on the next corner was the African American Baptist church. I always found that interesting.
That’s the way it is now. Any one of those groups could leave the Queen out of everything if they wanted, now. And they would if the Queen demanded they fire their new prime minister or gave 50% of GDP to Britain or something. So they are separate groups, right?
Freegards
Consent of the governed. They still consent, so they are not separate groups.
They will not consent if the queen tells them to disarm their military or wear all blue every odd day. How can they be the same group?
Freegards
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”
He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.
She won’t. Absurd hypothetical. Could ask the same thing about the Pope, but you won’t.
I can give examples of the Pope firing bishops and declaring dogmas. The ones that disagreed left, they were then two separate groups.
I guess I am missing why authority isn’t a good way to tell if two groups are separate or not.
Freegards
Were they two groups, or one, prior to the firings & dogmatic declarations?
>> Like if one group writes to another group telling them to change something or fire someone and they obey, they are the same. If they don’t accept it, everyone recognizes they are different. <<
By that standard, the 38,000 count is very low. The SBC can tell any Southern Baptist Church to make a change, and certainly be ignored.
One?
Freegards
What would the SBC do if a SB preacher denounced the Trinity or some other ridiculous thing?
Freegards
If there is no one on earth who can infallibly interpret Scripture or infallibly teach Christian doctrine, then why does any individual Christian have to obey the teachings of any denomination?
Wouldn’t each Christian be his own “denomination”?
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Only the Holy Spirit can interpret scripture, and he only does it for the individual that reads prayerfully.
No church can interpret scripture; that is the doctrine of nicolaitanism that Yeshua denounced.
Wherever two or more are gathered in his name is where he is found. He doesn’t live in boxes built with hands.
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The Holy Spirit started all of these contraditory sects 500 years ago? Wasn’t the Holy Spirit supposed to guide us into “all truth”?
Where 2 or more are gathered in Jesus’ name is “the pillar and foundation of truth”?
It’s obvious to me that Luther’s non-biblical tradition of “Sola Scriptura” can only result in the private interpretation of Scripture, the twisting of Scripture and doctrinal chaos.
Why do you post a strawman to me?
Sects all are started, and propagated by men. They are not of God. None of them.
Even the most Torah dedicated messianic church has some error in their doctrines. There is no church on Earth that is not based on the doctrines of men.
Thus it is fortunate that we are not judged on the church that we may attend, but what is in our hearts.
There is only ONE Catholic Church....among it various rites. Are you familiar with them?
No Christian has to obey the teachings of any denomination. Christians choose to walk together when they agree. The Bible is filled with passages of individual discernment.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Galatians 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
If there was an infallible source on earth, why do these verses exist? Instead these verses should say, "Only believe the spirits from Rome" or "If some preaches a gospel contrary to the Pope"
Are we to look towards God and His written word, or are we to look towards men?
Galatians 1:11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. 12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ.
The gospel was delivered by the apostles. The teachings of the Roman Catholic Church not found in scripture are part of man's gospel: taught from one man to another. I'll stick with the True Gospel as revealed by God through the apostles.
While we are to strive for unity, this world is imperfect and divisions are a fact.
The idea of an infallibly magisterium is silly. No one can say "This institution is infallible", while they acknowledge that their individual opinion is fallible.
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