Posted on 08/17/2015 6:07:35 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
It is that time of week again, where we talk about the Mary, the Mother of God. This is definitely the single most important title that Mary has. If someone gets this wrong, then they get the Divinity of our Lord wrong, and that means the whole plan of Salvation is just messed up. So let us look at this most important title.
Theotokos, God-bearer in Greek, is what the council of Ephesus declared in 431. It specifically says this If anyone does not confess that God is truly Emmanuel, and that on this account the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God (for according to the flesh she gave birth to the Word of God become flesh by birth), let him be anathema. Now just that statement alone proves the early Church believed that there was Authority given to the bishops to decide sound doctrine, Mary was a Holy Virgin her entire life, and that She bore God. However, we only have time for one today.
Now many times we will hear non-Catholics tell us that this title is nowhere found in Scripture, explicitly at least. However, they cannot themselves find a Scripture verse that says that all doctrine and dogma must be explicitly proven in Scripture. I bet they can never find that. This is a trap they set up for themselves and it is a very unfair double standard that they expect us to meet, but they do not have to. However, on top of this double standard is if we used that same standard, then the doctrine of the Trinity is thrown out, since its not an explicit teaching, but instead is implicit in Scripture. This double standard seems to cause more problems that its worth wouldnt you say?
Here is the cold hard truth of it though, all Christians rely on some Church Tradition, as well as Scripture, to validate their doctrines, whether they admit it or not. With that being said, Scripture and Tradition can never contradict one another. The Traditions of men can contradict the Word of God, but the Traditions God left us, through Christ, in the Holy Spirit, are binding upon us, as we are to hold fast to Traditions. So then, what is the real question? The real question is, Does Scripture contradict the teaching that Mary is the Mother of God, and is that doctrine found in Scripture at least implicitly?
Let us begin with Luke 1:43, where Mary visited Elizabeth. There Elizabeth exclaimed Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? Because Mary was the Mother of the Lord, who is the Second part of the Holy Trinity, Mary is truly and rightfully called the Mother of God.
We also see in Isaiah 7:14 Behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which is interpreted God with us. Jesus is God. He was God when He was in the womb, conceived, lived, died, buried, resurrected, in the Eucharist, and in Heaven. The Messiah, who is God, was to be born of a virgin, according to Scripture. God was born of a virgin, and its right there in Isaiah, who prophesied of Christ birth. That means both Old and New Testament support the Catholic Doctrine of the Mother of God.
However, this may not be enough for some non-Catholics. Some say that Elisabeth called Christ Lord, and not God, saying that Mary was only to give birth to the human child, the Lord Jesus Christ. So then the question becomes, does lord here mean divinity or just authority? Lets look at the context.
First let us look at 1 Cor. 8:5, which states Indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet to us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. St. Paul makes it clear that Jesus is the one True, Lord, as opposed to all the false ones, that the pagans who converted in Corinth were probably worshiping. So then, they would understand that Jesus is God. This holds true to the Jews who converted too, who would know Deut. 6:4 Hear, therefore, o Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.
So then that brings us back to Luke 1:43. Elizabeth calls Mary the mother of her Lord. The Mother Mothers give birth to persons, not natures, let us remember that. Mary did not just give birth to the human nature of Christ, she gave birth to the person of Christ. Christ personhood is Divine, it is God the Son.
Then let us look at 2 Sam. 6:9 where the King, who was David says How can the ark of the Lord come to me (being the ark of the covenant) Then in 2 Samuel 616 we see King David leaping in the presence of the Ark, just as John the Baptist did. Then we yet again see another parallel, which says that the ark of the Lord abode in the house of Obededom the Gethite for three months (2 Sam. 6:11), and according to Luke 1:56 Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth about three months. Then, we see that the ark of the covenant carried three items, manna, the Ten Commandments, and Aarons rod. These are all types of things Christ are, the Bread of Life, Word made Flesh, and our true High Priest.
Even knowing all this though, there are still those who would deny that Mary is the Mother of God. So then we have to ask, who is Jesus Christ to them? If Mary is not the Mother of God, then who did she give birth to? Many would say it was an earthly human lord, not God. So then, what does that make Christ? If Mary did not give birth to God, then who did she give birth to? Was not Christ God when He was conceived?
If someone says Mary only gave birth to the person of Christ one of two errors, or both could happen, and that is the Denial of the divinity of Christ, and that one would have to say Christ is two distinct persons, and that he is not One. Both were considered heresy in the Early Church. Christ is one Person, with two natures, Divine and Human, which go together and are not separate of one another. If one denies that, the ultimately they are speaking about a different Christ, and St. Paul warns us about that problem, and to not to give heed to them (2 Cor. 11:4).
So then, some say that Mary is the mother of the Trinity if we take it that far, however, this is not true. Mary gave birth to the 2nd part of the Trinity, the 2nd Person, who is still God just not the Trinity. However, we must never forget that each Person in the Trinity shares the same Divine Nature and is fully God.
One thing some still point out is that Christ is eternal, so for Mary to be the Mother of God she would have to be God. However the Church does not say Mary is the source of the Divine Nature of the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity. To better understand this lets look at humanity. Parents give birth to a person, however they are not the author of life, and certainly did not give the child its soul. Thus is true with Mary, she did not give Christ His Divine Nature, though she was the Mother of more than just the human form of Christ, because she gave birth to a person, who was God.
No.
There’s not a thing in the world that is logical in a Catholic’s adoration of Mary.
I notice that Scripture is lacking from our list of accomplishments.
That does explain a lot.
Just out of curiosity, Mary was very respected and loved by the Apostles and disciples of Christ....If she died and was buried, why doesn't anyone know where????....they marked and honored the burial places of people a lot less important than the mother of their savior.
no
Instead of belittling my honest question, why didn't you answer it????...............I thought so.
How about showing me, where Jesus Christ declared the Paraclete to be God? Or vice versa?
When the prots protest Mary to be the Mother of God without biblical evidence; they also can’t claim belief in the Holy Trinity.
Once again: Chapter and verse, please!
to whom??
Show me where the Holy Ghost calls Jesus, God. Or vice versa.
Catholics, real ones, never have to ask that question......
Yup, and I think that Christ came to Earth as an infant, grew and matured, gathered a group of Apostles, drew many disciples, formed His church on Earth, promised it infallible powers, instituted the Eucharist as His everlasting method to be physically with mankind until the end of time, and named Peter His first representative on Earth......
I think that they come just before......or is it just after the words of Christ Himself when He said Take and eat of this "THIS IS MY BODY".........oh, sorry, you don't believe that either.....PATHETIC.
HEY....She's a nice lady and Jesus' mom!!
Nope, Catechism class, Catholic teachings, answers from the clergy.......all had to do with scripture.....if you mean did I try to interpret the biblical scriptures on my own, ...the answer is NO. The Catholic church is the only source of Biblical interpretation which is protected by Christ's promise of infallibility.....I see how others interpret things to suit their needs and opinions and the error of their ways is quite apparent......
One of the greatest mistakes that protestants made during the revolution was to give up Christ in the Eucharist.......how very sad for them.
You will have to excuse me, I have several catholic friends over right now. You know what we are doing. 😀😁😂😅😄😃😆
Not irrelevant. Just an inconvenient piece of data your model omits.
Yup, one of us is right and I'll take my chances with the church that Christ founded rather than the navigators that some man came up with in the 1930's or thereabouts....somehow 2,000 years of following Christ with 1.4 BILLION members impresses me a little.
What evidence from God's Word proves this? Once Jesus' public ministry began, she was treated certainly no better than any other woman. Compare Jesus' praise for the Syrophoenician mother - Matthew 15:28 - Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And the anointing at Simon the leper's house - Matthew 26:10-13 - Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
Contrast Jesus' praise of the above two with his correction of Mary and his brethren.
Mark 3:31-35 (KJV) - 31 There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him. 32 And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. 33 And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34 And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
If Mary was such a bigwig in the Apostolic Age, why does she disappear from the New Testament after Acts 1, where she is simply listed among the Believers waiting for the Holy Spirit? And why, in Paul's letters to the Church, the foundation of God's Revelation to the Body of Christ, is she never even mentioned? She is not even listed in Hebrews 11, a chapter recounting the great faith heroes of the Bible! At the very least, that's worthy of careful consideration. Surely, if God wants us to worship, adore, or honor Mary in any substantive way, she would have a prominent place there! Heck, even Rahab the harlot gets a mention in Hebrews 11 AND James.
If she died and was buried, why doesn't anyone know where?
It would take me an afternoon to locate my grandparents graves and I was at their funeral! Imagine several hundreds of years, multiple wars, as well as the dispersion of the Jews in Israel, and its not so hard to imagine that a lot of graves were lost, robbed, or forgotten. The Jews and Roman subjects who remained would have little interest in the grave of the mother of a crucified criminal. Is it really so hard to believe that she died, was buried, and over time people simply forgot? Could it be possible that the immense attention Rome pays Mary is the result of centuries of compounded religious tradition, and as shown in Scripture, Mary was simply not placed on the pedestal by 1st Century Believers the same way the religious do today? Perhaps she always remained the humble, self-proclaimed "handmaid of the Lord" and lived out her life as God directed?
Why would BELIEVERS, people made alive in Christ and seated in Heavenly places, care where her body was buried? ITS NOT ABOUT HER anymore than it is about Peter, Paul, John, or any OT prophet or king. We don't worship the dead, but a risen Savior, who alone is worthy of praise. The entirety of Scripture has one clear purpose - Jesus. And while many kings, prophets, apostles, servants, men, and women, played their parts, the ONLY star of the Book is JESUS. He deserves ALL the attention because Believers are COMPLETE IN HIM. Introducing fables, religious speculation, and the reasoning of men, diminishes the simplicity and Glory of God's Truth. Paul warns of this very thing - Colossians 2:8 (KJV) - 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Believers should keep their focus on Jesus, expecting His coming appearance, and not be distracted by religion.
I really do sympathize with you; I would like to help you. You must take the first step by honestly disclosing the broad category of the sect to which you belong if I’m to break bread, as it were, with you.
Yup, and I think that Christ came to Earth as an infant, grew and matured, gathered a group of Apostles, drew many disciples, formed His church on Earth
Well you almost had it until you started with all the devilish man made stuff.
Now IAW Holy Scriptures Jesus is with us 24/7 because he physically lives within us.
Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Ephesians 3:17
so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love,
Colossians 1:27
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in youunless, of course, you fail the test?
Unfortunately you fail the test because by your own admission you must eat a wafer to have him physically in you. Thus you are only born of the flesh.
John 3:6
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
IF you where born again as the Holy Scripture demands of ALL believers you would know and feel his presence.
John 3:7
You should not be surprised at my saying, You must be born again.
You might want to read the story about the Jews wanting a leader on earth while God wanted to be their only leader. God doesnt need a man leader he is fully capable of leading his children. It didnt work well for them as he promised that it wouldnt, but they did it anyways.
1 Samuel 8:6-9New International Version (NIV)
6 But when they said, Give us a king to lead us, this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.
The RCC has fallen just as Israel has because all man is sinful and thus cant lead us to a Holy life. This is exactly why you worship false and molten images just as they did.
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
This is why Jesus didnt appoint any leaders while he was with us! Only sinful man would crave that power and position.
Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Luke 9:46-48
46 An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. 47 Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48 Then he said to them, Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For it is the one who is least among you all who is the greatest.
This was the perfect opportunity for Jesus to appoint someone, but he did the exact opposite.
Revelation 21:14
The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Notice all twelve apostles of Jesus.
“1.4 BILLION members”
Count up all the non Jesus believing Jews for the last 2000 years and they will beat that membership hands down, but unless they believe in Jesus Christ IAW with Holy Scriptures and not some man made doctrine they will go to Hell. Sorry, but numbers don’t equal salvation.
Matthew 7:21-23New International Version (NIV)
21 Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? 23 Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
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