Posted on 08/09/2015 11:06:27 AM PDT by Old Yeller
The Bible never speaks of a place where one can go to be purified of his sin. Rather, it always speaks of a Person to whom we can go to be purified: Jesus Christ. God tells us that those who refuse to trust Christ to cleanse them from their sins are condemned: Whoever believes in Him avoids condemnation, but whoever does not believe is already condemned for not believing in the name of God's only Son (John 3:18). There are only two choices: Whoever believes in the Son has life eternal. Whoever disobeys the Son will not see life, but must endure the wrath of God (John 3:36; See also Revelation 20:15; Luke 16:19-31, especially verse 26). Anyone who accepts Christ is completely saved: There is no condemnation now for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). Saying that there is no condemnation, certainly eliminates the flames of purgatory.
Another passage which clearly excludes the idea of purgatory is, their sins and transgressions I will remember no more (Hebrews 10:17). If, as the Bible says, God no longer remembers the sins of those who are in Christ, He does not punish them for these sins. To do so would be saying that Christ had not made full payment for them and that God the Father still remembered them. (See also Romans 5:8-11; Hebrews 10:14-18; Psalm 103:12).
Anyone who does not believe that Christ has completely saved him, has not completely trusted Christ to save him. That is, he does not believe that Christ's sacrifice has paid for all of his sins, and thinks he must pay for some of them himself. However, we are saved when we stop trusting what we can do, and start trusting Christ to save us.
The idea that Christ's sacrifice is not sufficient to cleanse us from all of our sins would condemn a great sinner such as the thief who was crucified with Jesus to suffer a long time in purgatory if not for all eternity in hell! Instead, there was nothing left over that Christ's death on the Cross did not cover. When the thief placed his trust in Christ, Jesus said to him, I assure you: this day you will be with me in paradise (Luke 23:43).
If purgatory existed, and the mass helped people to get out, the rich would have a tremendous advantage by being able to pay for masses to shorten their suffering. The poor instead, would be left to the mercy of the occasional priest who might say an unpaid mass for them. One ex-priest wrote, "If we really believed that the mass would save people from the flames of purgatory, would we make them pay for it? I would even save a dog if I saw one in a fire, and I would never even think of asking to be paid!"
Purgatory was evidently a pagan idea. Virgil, the pagan Latin poet who lived 70 - 19 B.C. divided the departed souls into three different places in his writings: One for the good, one for the damned, and a third where the less bad could pay for their sins. Since the idea of purgatory existed outside of the church before it came into the church, it is probable that it was brought in by contact with pagans like Virgil. There was a great influx of non-Biblical ideas into the church around 300 A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine took many unsaved people in as members of the church.
In any event, there is no mention of purgatory in the Bible. Some would try, however, to make the idea sound somewhat Biblical by referring to 2 Maccabees 12:41-45, a passage in one of the apocryphal books written between the times of the Old and New Testaments. These books were never accepted as part of the Hebrew Old Testament, nor quoted in the New Testament, but they are included in the Catholic Bible, though usually with an explanation that they are of a less inspired category. Apart from this passage in 2 Maccabees, the apocrypha is little used by the Catholic church to support a doctrinal position.
It is important to notice that this passage does not speak of purgatory at all, but actually condemns idolatry, particularly the practice of wearing little images on a necklace or such. Hebrew soldiers were found wearing this sort of thing after a battle, and their buddies, on making this discovery, realized that they had died in the sin of idolatry. They then counseled prayer for their souls. The Roman Catholic position is that prayer for them would have been unnecessary if they were in heaven and useless if they were in hell, so there must be another place. The logic seems good, but the result contradicts the clear teaching of the inspired Scripture. Contradicting inspired Scripture with a philosophical response based on an apparent inference from the Apocrypha is a very weak argument indeed. The very word "Apocrypha," which comes from the Greek word for hidden, has come to mean "false," or "of doubtful authorship."
That is true, and faith in Christ means follow the church which He Himself founded....the Catholic church...if you deny His church, you deny Him.
Why do you place your man made organization above the Savior?
Rome is dangerous because she offers an attractive admixture of pagan and Christian belief. Only those Bereans with God-given discernment come to recognize it. As Spurgeon said, “Discernment is not knowing the difference between right and wrong. It is knowing the difference between right and almost right.”
The soul is already freed from sin.
That’s what forgiveness is all about.
When we die, the flesh is gone, and so is the last attachment to sin. All that’s left is the perfected, sinless, redeemed spirit, which is then in a state of perfection and able to stand in the presence of God with no further anything needing to be done.
Ever hear of a fella named SAMSON?
Reading about Samson’s behavior I could imagine him saying “Hold m’ Beer and Watch THIS!”
When we die, the flesh is gone, and so is the last attachment to sin. All that’s left is the perfected, sinless, redeemed spirit, which is then in a state of perfection and able to stand in the presence of God with no further anything needing to be done.
Christ is sufficient. There’s no need to do time in a celestial torture chamber. Cleansed in the Blood of the Lamb, we are made worthy by His sacrifice.
As opposed to the bible ordered translated the Homosexual King James who was into witchcraft.
Nice library. Not a Jewish Canon. ... But the apocryphal books were not part of the Jewish Canon.
If it wasn't already Jewish canon then where did the books come from, and why are the Ethiopian Jews still using it?
Best to you
And you as well.
If Trump runs third party and splits the vote.
Mormons have the same dignity as human beings as anyone else, and should be treated and referred to as such, whether or not we agree with what they believe.
This is NOT Christianity! This is strictly "New Age spiritualism" mixed with a little bit of Taoism.
If you say so...
Judges 16:23-31 New International Version (NIV)
23 Now the rulers of the Philistines assembled to offer a great sacrifice to Dagon their god and to celebrate, saying, “Our god has delivered Samson, our enemy, into our hands.”
24 When the people saw him, they praised their god, saying,
“Our god has delivered our enemy
into our hands,
the one who laid waste our land
and multiplied our slain.”
25 While they were in high spirits, they shouted, “Bring out Samson to entertain us.” So they called Samson out of the prison, and he performed for them.
When they stood him among the pillars, 26 Samson said to the servant who held his hand, “Put me where I can feel the pillars that support the temple, so that I may lean against them.” 27 Now the temple was crowded with men and women; all the rulers of the Philistines were there, and on the roof were about three thousand men and women watching Samson perform. 28 Then Samson prayed to the Lord, “Sovereign Lord, remember me. Please, God, strengthen me just once more, and let me with one blow get revenge on the Philistines for my two eyes.” 29 Then Samson reached toward the two central pillars on which the temple stood. Bracing himself against them, his right hand on the one and his left hand on the other, 30 Samson said, “Let me die with the Philistines!” Then he pushed with all his might, and down came the temple on the rulers and all the people in it. Thus he killed many more when he died than while he lived.
31 Then his brothers and his father’s whole family went down to get him. They brought him back and buried him between Zorah and Eshtaol in the tomb of Manoah his father. He had led[a] Israel twenty years.
I did. It was the same as the first.
Do you mean the THIRD one you posted?
Oh?
And why do you claim THIS?
Imagine all you want; but RELY on what is WRITTEN.
It just faded away, like Disco, in America.
PROTestants have the same dignity as human beings as anyone else, and should be treated and referred to as such, whether or not we agree with what they believe.
Ping a MORMON and ask THEM what they think about YOU!!!
Didja see any "ism" stuck on the end of those two capitalized words?
This is, if not the most significant one of the most significant posts I have read on FR ever. I can only pray it has the impact on me it deserves. I know I will simply fall back into my old sinful ways even after reading this. I thus beg all reading this to pray for me to the Lord our God.
I also pray it impacts someone else so forcefully. Everyone reading this post should read the one it refers to. It’s simply extraordinary. And not just what’s posted here on FR. Go to the blog to read it all.
http://testimony-polo.blogspot.com/2009/11/testimony-of-gloria-polo.html?m=1
Her testimony video recorded: (not the same one; a shorter version): http://youtu.be/smKKCZLiCi0
“Yes FRiend. Yet this doesn’t further your cause. Secular King of Egypt commissions a translation of everything he can find to build a library.
“As opposed to the bible ordered translated the Homosexual King James who was into witchcraft.
You will have to research to satisfy your own interest verga, but my understanding is that After the initial translation of the first 5 books of the Jewish Canon were complete, everything else Ptolemy II Philadelphus’ team found was included. These writings were not considered part of the Jewish Canon by Jews. They were kept for historical reference. There are many online resources you can use. We are blessed to live in an age where so much is available.
Adding additional materials to expand a library (Library of Alexandria, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria), is a very different task than the one King James undertook when appointing translators. I would not rush to make them equivalent, nor would I give KJ a pass on any immoral activity.
I note they had different purposes and I note that Jews did not consider the Apocrypha part of their Canon of inspired books. Upthread, I posted reasons why the Apocrypha fails the test of inspiration.
“If it wasn’t already Jewish canon then where did the books come from, and why are the Ethiopian Jews still using it?”
Many scrolls (ref. Dead Sea Scrolls) were collected and were not considered inspired.
Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israel) were extremely isolated geographically and isolated from other Jewish communities. This continued until the last part of the 20th (!) century. They used what they had access to. I would speculate that when they went into exile, they took what they had as a community. Living in extreme isolation prevented them from interaction with other Jewish groups. In the course of human experience, after a generation or two passes, the belief in tradition surpasses all else. I doubt it was ever considered, but simply accepted that what they had was the totality of Scripture, including the Apocrypha. I doubt we can fully answer that riddle. For that reason and the circumstances of their existence, I don’t find the argument compelling. You may. Let each be convinced in his own mind.
Interestingly to me, they place primary importance on the first 5 books of the Scriptures (Torah), considering all other Scripture as of less importance. They also have extra-Biblical writings that they preserve and have for hundreds of years. I don’t doubt that Ptolemy II Philadelphus would have skarfed up those writings too for his library, had he had access to them.
The Ethiopian Jews are a very interesting study in so many ways. It reminds me that God will gather His people back to Israel in the twinkling of an eye when Christ returns. They will also recognize The One that They Pierced and mourn.
Blessings.
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