How to Go to Heaven

So you can have the whole story.

I like to zero in on details...

Pope Stephen VI (896–897), who had his predecessor Pope Formosus exhumed, tried, de-fingered, briefly reburied, and thrown in the Tiber.^[1]

Pope John XII (955–964), who gave land to a mistress, murdered several people, and was killed by a man who caught him in bed with his wife.

Pope Benedict IX (1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048), who "sold" the Papacy

Pope Boniface VIII (1294–1303), who is lampooned in Dante's Divine Comedy

Pope Urban VI (1378–1389), who complained that he did not hear enough screaming when Cardinals who had conspired against him were tortured.^[2]

Pope Alexander VI (1492–1503), a Borgia, who was guilty of nepotism and whose unattended corpse swelled until it could barely fit in a coffin.^[3]

Pope Leo X (1513–1521), a spendthrift member of the Medici family who once spent 1/7 of his predecessors' reserves on a single ceremony^[4]

Pope Clement VII (1523–1534), also a Medici, whose power-politicking with France, Spain, and Germany got Rome sacked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bad_Popes

Do you keep stats for yourself? What’s your longest streak of posts? I count 11 on this run.

I was always told I would be persecuted for being a Christian be never knew what that meant UNTIL I became a Catholic and all I have been is persecuted! By other so called Christians like you!!! Do you have any idea how you come across? I know enough to know Jesus was not like this.

I know enough to know Jesus was not like this.

I was always told I would be persecuted for being a Christian be never knew what that meant UNTIL I became a Catholic and all I have been is persecuted! By other so called Christians like you!!!

Ah feel your pain.

Get back to me when you take the words of Jesus seriously.

Micah 6:8

He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?

Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

1 John 3:21-23
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

James 1:27

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

...(H)e made sure that this one can be understood even by a child.

I think it's even simpler than what the author posits, but I can't put it into words. Anyway, a child would not need words in order to understand.

Thanks for the thread.

The Catholic church has been on Earth for 2,015 years and has guided mankind through extraordinary difficulties.

Yeah, some of the popes WERE a bit; shall we say; MIS-guided and DID fly off the rails a bit, but so what?

They're only human.

We'll survive this current one.

Exactly which book, chapter and verse is the above stated? Don't cite Catholic doctrine back to me, where *exactly* is it in the Bible?

Only crickets. Instead you will likely see another article posting more propaganda, under the guise of it merely being informational, as RCs seek to turn FR into an advertising apologetics organ for their elitist church (8 articles just yesterday).

After all, under the proposed RC monarchy, that is what all would be.

However, I have not seen any RC arguments that have not been refuted, thus such postings provide the Internet with those resources, while it remains that the elitist RCC is a critical deformation of the NT church.

2. Table of contrasts between the New Testament church and Roman Catholicism.

Aspect	NT church	Commentary (just short refutations, for by God's grace defenders of Rome have been refuted time and time again into silence or to resorting to ad hominem attacks in lieu of a valid argument.
Leadership	• No apostles elected by voting. • No successors after Judas, with the only continuously perpetuated pastoral office by way of ordination being that of presbuteros/episkopos. • Peter as as non-assertive street-level leader among the 11, with no succession or preparation for one. • No corporate view of Peter as their first of supreme infallible popes in Rome. • Nowhere in the NT, interpretive of Mt. 16:18, is Peter called or described as the Rock upon which the church was built. • No leadership claiming/possessing ensured perpetual infallibility. • No leadership with unique sacrificial function, offering food as sacrifice. • No leadership distinctively titled “hiereus” (priests): only presbuteros/ episkopos (same office: Titus 1:5-7). • No leadership with unique sacrificial function, offering food as sacrifice. • The primary function of pastors was that of prayer and preaching the word of God. • No required celibacy for leadership. Most were married.	• There were no apostolic successors after Judas, which was (in order to maintain foundational number of apostles (cf. Rv. 21:14) and which was by the non-political Scriptural means of casting lots. (cf. Prov. 16:33) Peter was the initial, non-assertive street-level leader among the 11, once even listed after James (who provided the conclusive judgment in Acts 15) in Gal. 2 as one of 3 present who appeared to be pillars. To whom Rome's ensured perpetual formulaic infallibility is nowhere promised, and in contrast holy (he was) Peter was the only apostle directly publicly rebuked. • No succession for Peter or preparation for one is seen in the NT, an incongruous conspicuous omission for a cardinal doctrine, while ordination of leaders is described and taught. For the only continuously perpetuated pastoral office (unless deacons are included) by way of formal ordination was that of presbuteros (senior/elder) or episkopos (superintendent/overseer), both of which refer to those in the same office. (Titus 1:5-7) • Nowhere is the church described as looking to Peter as the first of a line of supreme infallible heads in Rome, nor told to even in any of the church epistles or in the Lord's commendations and criticisms of the 7 churches of Asia. • Nowhere interpretive of Mt. 16:18 is Peter called or described as the Rock upon which the church was built. Instead, that the LORD Jesus is the Rock (“petra”) or "stone" (“lithos,” and which denotes a large rock in Mk. 16:4) upon which the church is built is one of the most abundantly confirmed doctrines in the Bible (petra: Rm. 9:33; 1Cor. 10:4; 1Pet. 2:8; cf. Lk. 6:48; 1Cor. 3:11; lithos: Mat. 21:42; Mk.12:10-11; Lk. 20:17-18; Act. 4:11; Rm. 9:33; Eph. 2:20; cf. Dt. 32:4, Is. 28:16) including by Peter himself. (1Pt. 2:4-8) • Nowhere is leadership/magisterial office promised ensured perpetual infallibility. RCs extrapolate support for this out of promises of God's presence and preservation, but which Israel has as well. They also hold that an infallible magisterium is essential to know what is of God (writing and men) and their meaning, but which was never required before, and is contrary to how the church began. • Nowhere is leadership distinctively titled “hiereus” (priests), which distinctive title is only used for Jewish and pagan priests. Catholics try to defend the use of priests by relying on an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy ">etymological fallacy </a>, since "priest," from old English "preost," etymologically is derived from "presbyteros," but which is not what the latter means. Instead the use of the title priests was a latter development due to imposed functional equivalence, supposing NT presbyteros engaged in a unique sacrificial ministry as a primary function, which they did not. • Nowhere is leadership even shown distributing food as part of their specific ordained function, (Acts 6:3,4) and is nowhere is the Lords' Supper shown to be led by priests conducting it, let alone offering it as a sacrifice for sins to be consumed to obtain eternal life. The command to “do this in memory of Me” is nowhere shown to be specifically and uniquely given to leadership, let alone a class titled “priests.” • The primary function of pastors was that of prayer and preaching the word of God, (Acts 6:3,4) which is said to "nourish" the souls of believers, and believing it is how the lost obtain life in themselves. (1 Timothy 4:6; Psalms 19:7;Acts 15:7-9) • Nowhere is celibacy a requirement for leadership, as in contrast marriage was the norm for pastors, include most of the apostles. Paul and Barnabas under a vow to stay single. (1Cor. 9:4; 1Tim. 3:1-7)
The Lord's Supper	• The Lord's Supper is ordained as an ordinance by which that believers remember the Lord's death and show fellowship with Christ by a commemorative shared meal. • Nowhere is spiritual life obtaining by literally eating anything physical. Instead, spiritual life is obtained by hearing and believing the gospel of grace.	• Nowhere, interpretive of of the gospels, is the Lord's Supper itself described as offering for sin, or to be consumed in order to obtain essential spiritual life. Instead is only described in one epistle and in which it is analogous to pagans having fellowship with their gods, not by consuming their flesh, but by the communal meal done in dedication to the object of worship. By which believers remember the Lord's death and fellowship with Christ by a commemorative communal meal, sharing food in recognition of each other being part of the body of Christ which He purchased with His own sinless shed blood. Only the metaphorical See here. By God's grace. • Nowhere is spiritual life obtaining by literally eating anything physical, as per transubstantiation. Spiritual life is obtained by hearing and believing the gospel of grace, which is said to "nourish" the souls of believers and build them up (1 Timothy 4:6; Acts 20:32)
Baptism	• Baptism is ordained by which souls confess the Lord Jesus, identifying with Him in His death by full immersion. • It is the faith behind baptism that purifies the heart, not the act itself effecting it. • Nowhere are any infants manifestly described as being baptized.	• Souls confess and identify with the Lord Jesus in baptism by full immersion, as that alone corresponds to burial (as a liquid grave) and is what the Greek word means. (Acts 8:38; Rm. 6:1ff) • It is the faith behind baptism that purifies the heart, as Peter preached and described, (Acts 10:43; 15:7-9) not the act itself effecting it. As baptism requires and evidences faith, so it is promised that those who will repent and baptized will be saved, just as whosoever shall call upon the Lord, who believe in their heart and confess with their mouth faith in the gospel are promised salvation. (Rm. 10:9-13) • Nowhere are any infants manifestly described as being baptized, the stipulated requirements for which are repentance and wholehearted faith. (Acts 2:38; 8:36,37) .
Gospel and soteriology	• Preached the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord Jesus, the Son of God, and forgiveness of sins and regeneration by the Spirit of God by faith, which is counted for righteousness, but which is a faith that is (normally) confessed first in baptism.	• Believers are promised forgiveness of sins and regeneration by the Spirit of God by faith in the Lord Jesus who died for us and whom God raised up. As a result, their faith (a living faith, such as is confessed in baptism and following the Lord) is counted for righteousness, and the believer is washed, sanctified and justified on account of thew sinless and perfect Christ, not their own righteousness. (Rm. 3:10- 5:1; 1Cor. 6:11; Eph. 2:8,9; Titus 3:5) • The merit of works is excluded as the basis for justification, with “works of the law” usually being used as that is the epitome of salvation by merit. "If there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." (Galatians 3:21) When Abraham believed God to do what he could not do then it was counted unto him for righteousness, though he had done works before that. Likewise we must believe God to do what we cannot not do, that is, to justify ourselves by becoming good enough to be with God, which God does by imputation of righteousness by faith in the Jesus Christ the righteous. • In contrast, Catholicism teaches that the one is formally justified by his own holiness, first effected by the act of baptism, leaving the subject holy enough to be with God. Thus Rome holds that most believers must spend an indeterminate postmortem time suffering “purifying torments” in mythical “Purgatory” until the subject becomes good enough, free of character defects, to be with God (and atone for sins). • Works/holiness do have a justificatory effect, that of justifying one as being a believer, and fit to be rewarded under grace, with God rewarded faith in recognition of its works, (Mt. 25:31-40; Heb. 6:9,10; 10:35; Rv. 3:4) even though in conversion, man is both enabled and motivated (Jn. 6:44; 16:8-11; 12:32; Acts 11:18; 16:14; Eph. 2:8,9) to do what he otherwise could not and would not do, and then enables and motivates the believer to live for God. (Phil. 2:13; 1Co. 11:32) • However, believers can choose to sin, and are warned against having an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, falling from grace, drawing back into perdition, making Christ of no effect/profit, falling from grace. (Heb. 3:12; 10:38; Gal. 5:1-4) Thus God works to chasten wayward souls to repentance, lest they “be condemned with the rest of the world.” (1Co. 11:32
Afterlife	• All true believers go to be with the Lord at death or at His return, the latter being the next transformative effect believers look to. After which is the only suffering believers will realize, that being the loss of rewards.	• What Scripture teaches wherever it manifestly speaks about the next life, is that since believers are forgiven on account of Christ, on His merit, then all true believers presently are “accepted in the Beloved,” and made to sit together with Christ in the heavenly, (Eph. 1:6;2:6) and go to be with the Lord at death or at His return. it is always with the Lord. (Lk. 23:43 [cf. 2Cor. 12:4; Rv. 2:7]; Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Note in the latter case all believers were assured that if the Lord returned, which they expected in their lifetime, so would they “ever be with the Lord.” (1Thes. 4:17) though they were still undergoing growth in grace, as was Paul. (Phil. 3;2) And which is the next transformative event believers look to, that of being conformed to Christ. (2Cor. 5:2,3; 1Cor. 15; 1Jn. 3:2) • At/after which coming ( versus purgatory, which has souls suffering upon death) believers at the judgment seat of Christ (1Cor. 3:8ff; 4:5; 2Tim. 4:1,8; Rev.11:18; Mt. 25:31-46; 1Pt. 1:7; 5:4) will gain or lose rewards based on the quality of the material they used to build the church with, which loss is only (and momentary) suffering (along with the grievous displeasure of the Lord) believers will realize after leaving this world. Scripture also only reveals growth in grace and overcoming and prolonged suffering as being realized in this world, with its temptations and trials, (1 Peter 1:6-7; 1Jn.2:14; 5:4,5; Rv. 2.7,11,17,26; 3:5,12,21) where alternatives to submitting to God can be made (suffering itself does not make one mature) and thus it was here that the Lord Himself was made “perfect,” (Heb. 2:10) as in being “in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” (Heb. 4:15)
Scripture	• Scripture is manifest as being the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. • Scriptural substantiation in word and in power was the basis for the veracity of Truth claims. • Never supported or made laws that restricted personal reading of Scripture by laity	It is abundantly evidenced that the word of God/the Lord was normally written, even if sometimes subsequent to being spoken, and that as written, the written word of God became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. And which testifies (Lk. 24:27,44; Acts 17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23, etc.) to writings of God being recognized and established as being so (essentially due to their unique and enduring heavenly qualities and attestation), and thus they materially provide for a canon of Scripture (as well as for reason, the church, etc.) Scriptural substantiation in word and in power was the basis for Truth claims, not the premise of ensured papal/magisterial infallibility, which is nowhere seen or promised nor necessary to preserve faith. Never supported or made laws that restricted personal reading of Scripture by laity as per Rome, if available, sometimes even outlawing it when it was.
Oral tradition	• Oral “tradition” was that of orally preaching Scriptural Truths, as a Sola Scriptura preacher is to do, while it also included new revelation as well as wholly inspired preaching of the word of God. • Nowhere was the veracity of oral tradition based upon the premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility.	Oral “tradition” was that of orally preaching Scriptural Truths by the whole church,(Acts 8:4) as a Sola Scriptura preacher is to do, while it also included new revelation and Divinely revealed Truths as the wholly inspired preaching word of God (which is uniquely powerful: Heb. 4:12). neither of which Rome claims to do (she claims her oral tradition is inspired, but not the written promulgation of it). Nowhere was the veracity of oral tradition based upon the the novel and unScriptural premise of ensured perpetual magisterial infallibility as per Rome, but Scripture was the standard by which all was tested by. (Acts 17:11)
Prayer	• Prayer directly to God by the blood of Christ, who is the only heavenly intercessor between God and man. • Never prayed to any created beings in Heaven.	• Nowhere in all of Scripture, with its over 200 recorded prayers, did any believer pray to anyone else in Heaven by God, who alone is shown to be able to hear and personally respond multitudinous prayers to Heaven. The Lord's own instructions on prayer was to “Our Father who art in Heaven,” to whom the Spirit in believers cries out to, never “Our Mother.” • Communication between created beings always required both to be in the same realm, even if via a vision. Christ is taught as being the only and wholly sufficient and accessible heavenly intercessor between God and man. (1Tim. 2:5; Heb. 2:18 4:14-16)
Mary	• Mary simply presented as a holy devout vessel of God, used to provide the body God had prepared for His Divine Son, whom she owed her existence to. • No prayers were made to her, while she prayed directly to the Lord, nor are many other things taught of her that are said of the Mary of Catholicism.	• Mary presented as a holy vessel of God used to provide the body God had prepared, (Heb. 10:5) owing her very breath to the Son of God who was incarnated through her, (Jn. 1:1-3) and whom she was a mother to. Which Christ said all obedient believers were. • Scripture never records her as a women who never sinned, and or as a perpetual virgin despite being married (contrary to the normal description of marriage, as in leaving and sexually cleaving), nor as one who would be bodily assumed to Heaven and exalted (officially or with implicit sanction) as the Queen of Heaven, as an almost almighty demigoddess. • Scripture does not teach the Mary of Catholicism, to whom "Jesus owes His Precious Blood" to. Whose [Mary] merits we are saved by; who "had to suffer, as He did, all the consequences of sin;" whose power now "is all but unlimited," "surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven," so much that she "seems to have the same power as God," that “even God himself, is subject to the Blessed Virgin” since her prayers and requests are as commands, and that "the Holy Spirit acts only by the Most Blessed Virgin, his Spouse," and that “sometimes salvation is quicker if we remember Mary's name then if we invoked the name of the Lord Jesus," and who (obviously) cannot "be honored to excess."
Worship	• Worship was to God alone, with such things as making supplication to other being in heaven being idolatry.	• Worship was to be to God alone in spirit and in Truth, (Jn. 4:24) with ascribing uniquely Divine attributes to created beings, including the ability to hear and personally respond to prayer in Heaven, and bowing down as before them (or their representative images) and making supplication to them, constituting idolatry, (Jer. 44; Acts 7:43) even if it was an instrument used by God. (Num. 21:9; 2Ki. 18:4)
Miscl.	• “Saints” denoted all believers. God was distinctive from that of the known God of pagans. • Did not rule over those without, nor use the sword of men for church purposes.	• The NT never called a separate class of believers “saints,” which term denoted all believers. • Never taught that the deity Muslims worship (who is not as an "unknown god") is the same as theirs. • Never used the sword of men to deal with its theological dissenters, as instead disfellowship and the spiritual power was their recourse, and relegated dealing with those without the church to being outside their realm. (1Cor. 5:4,5,11-13; 1Tim. 1:20)

The Roman Deformation of the New Testament church and Historical Context of the Reformation

Remember, Jesus breathed on them (Holy Spirit), saying, “Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them, whose sins you bind will be held bound.”

See 259 . Besides there being absolutely zero Cath priests in the NT, Scripture teaches that the binding/loosing of sins pertains to judicial judgments, which the OT magisterium also engaged in. (Dt. 17:8-13) And which the often-invoked Mt. 18:15-17 pertains to, but the church corporate is to be involved, as seen applied in 1Co. 5, in which Paul leads the whole church in delivering a man to the devil for restorative chastisement. And latter exhorts the church to forgive the man, which action Paul concurs with as in the person of Christ. (2Cor. 5:7-11)

This binding is also declarative in Acts 5 and 8, resulting in Divine judgment or the threat thereof. In the latter case we see Peter telling Simon to pray himself that he be forgiven, while the latter asks prayer for him, which is met by silence in the narrative.

God can also have regard to the intercession of other believers for those being chastened for sin, likely including sins one is ignorant of, and which intercession primarily is to be expected of the presbuteros (senior/elder) office, as James 5:14,15 teaches.

However, besides judicial judgments, Mt. 18:18-20 and James 5:16-20 teach that spiritual binding and loosing also is provided for all believers of righteous faith as exampled by Elijah, who bound the heavens for 3.5 years and then loosed them (now there is a solution for sppsd Climate Change!).

And which calls for confession of faults to each other in general and communal prayer for them. And which ministry of all believers includes canceling a multitude of sin due to turning one to repentance.

Some things that you don’t grasp now will become clear to you in Purgatory.

Some things that souls don’t grasp now will become clear to them in Hell, including that their hope of becoming good enough to enter Heaven though purgatory was a deception.

And instead, one either dies in saving faith which produces holiness and works of faith (and repentance when convicted of not doing so), , by which faith one is washed, sanctified and justified, (1Co. 6:11) with faith being imputed for righteousness.And which faith effects holiness and works of faith - things which accompany salvation (Heb. 6:9) which justifies one as being a believer and fit to be rewarded in grace. (Mt. 25:34-40; Rv. 3:8) For such faith has great recompense of the reward. (Heb. 10:35) though apart from justifying faith one would realize the wages of sin, not the gift of eternal life which cannot be truly merited.

You have a wrong view of what "hope" means in the Bible.

Please look at ANY of these:
BiblStudyTools.com definition of "Hope"
Pathos.com definition of "Hope"
GotQuestions.com definition of "Hope"
DesiringGod.com definition of "Hope"
BibleHub, Greek "elpis" (hope) definition of "Hope"
PurposelyDifferent.com definition of "Hope"
AnswersInGenesis.com definition of "Hope"

As Samwise Gamgee said, "There's an eye-opener, and no mistake."

(Could change your entire outlook on the matter of eternal security. Are you ready for a change?)

Truly, I didn’t feel “wrong or offended”. I moved on.
It just happened to be an incident in my life that was called to mind by a post on this thread.
And I don’t keep scores. That’s a waste of time and treasure.

I am at peace.

Once wheat always wheat.

Very true. I am told that the wheat and tare look very similar as young plants, but start to look less and less alike as they mature. Actually, AV, the belief in the "perseverance of the wheat" is entirely biblical, not to mention being good botany as well. You appear to be mistaking apostasy for loss of wheateness, which is never taught. Much more consistently, as John teaches, those who fall away permanently are only giving proof of their inner "tare-ness:"

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
(1 John 2:19)

So while the full manifestation of the truth may not be evident until the final harvest, any individual wheat plant can enjoy being wheat and doing as wheat does, and making more wheat along the way ("bearing fruit"). All the biblical directives that instruct the believer to think of themselves as really having eternal life now and to live accordingly are perfectly consistent with those that warn the congregation of the terrible consequences of falling away. There are two different audiences. Both things are true. The tares will not ultimately obey the warnings anyway. That's what tares do. The wheats will respond by cleaning up in their life whatever is putting them in doubt, or otherwise interfering with their relationship with Jesus, whether a besetting sin, or a gap in their understanding of God's great grace. Because that's what wheats do.

Peace,

SR

Did you really think that an article, by a Catholic apologist, on a topic of significant and complex disagreement, wouldn’t generate conflict? It seems like a no-brainer to me.

“
God does not have a hierarchy of sins. More made-up stuff.”

I would be cautious about that presumption.

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/966-are-some-sins-greater-than-others

That’s a Protestant site that provides many examples. You already know the Cathloic position, and Jesus himself told Pilate:

“When Jesus was on trial before Pilate, he said: ‘He who delivers me unto you has the greater sin’ “(John 19:11).

Greater implies a higher severity in the eyes of God. You are, of course, free to rely on your own wisdom in this matter. For me, I will take the word of our Lord and Savior.

So hypothetically speaking your body could commit murder...

That's a fascinating comment.

There's a little misunderstanding about the two natures, though. We are talking about the "old man" and the "new man." One is flesh, the other spiritual.

In a Christian (ONLY in a Christian), they are in a heated battle with one another. The new man is stronger, however and will win every time he is preferred by his host's free will. He's a survivor. He's a victor. Well, he's the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Paul talks about this battle at length in Romans 7.

.

Here's why your question caught my attention: The old man must be murdered (in a sense). What's the cause of death?

Starvation.

You (the host) need to not feed the old nature. Constantly think to yourself, "If I feed him by giving what he wants (sin), then he'll get stronger with each battle that he wins. If I turn away (make the RIGHT MORAL CHOICE), then he will grow weaker and each subsequent battle will be easier as I go through life."

It's a great illustration.

I'd like to hear your response.

(Men- this is a great way to get past your lust problem!)

“That’s a Protestant site.”

I’m not a Protestant; I don’t care what info the site provides.

“...just three years ago”.
I’ll call you a “newbie” ;-)
The best is yet to come.
Keep your eyes on the finish line and “run so as to win”.
God bless.

“...wouldn’t generate conflict?...’

I can’t speak for anyone else, of course, yet it would seem that we can all feel free to post even controversial topics that will generate civil debate and even heated rhetoric; the problem is posts such as #50 that are pure sarcasm, snark and have nothing to do with honest discussion. That seems to be the actual issue.