Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
If man could earn heaven...they would not have needed a Savior
Can you list the things needed for salvation? The catholic things I mean.
Are you claiming to know what is in my heart regarding my relationship with Christ? And that goes for the rest of the billion-plus Catholics.
Can you list the catholic things needed for salvation?
Um, since catholicism teaches ‘another christ’ you could consider some of us offering you The Christ of The Bible, through Whom Saving Faith and immediate birth from above is available. We offer not an installment salvation, as the christ of catholicism teaches, but an immediate Savior and Lord.
jobim: That statement is a lie. It's a sin for a Christian to tell a lie.
It's not a lie. There are plenty of former RC's who will tell you that that's what they did.
And I'm one of them. When I was a Catholic, that was my identity. I followed Catholicism, thinking that was the way to get to heaven and non-Catholics were going to hell, because that's what I was taught.
Then a once in a lifetime Mass is all that's needed for a Catholic...
Magic thinking is seldom logical ...
Yup.
Are you ?
You don’t speak for Catholics worldwide either.
And your comments are anecdotal as well.
Nor does your inductive conclusion convey a transcendent truth.
The very things that you claim invalidate my comments invalidate yours as well because they can be applied to you as well.
My relationship with Jesus Christ is just fine which is better than what I had as a Catholic, which was none.
Years ago I used to wonder ‘What are these Nicolaitans spoken of in the beginning of Revelation. Now that I’ve dug in deeply tot eh Catholic beliefs and system of religion I am astonished to see the Nicolaitans in this age! It grieves God to have so many sincere people led so far from the Truth of what He declares in His Word to us. Truly, pagan rites and rituals of magic thinking have completely corroded a large segment of those who would follow Jesus if the catholic church taught on Him and encouraged their adherents to spend much time with Him in The Word. If they would just stop daily blasphemies against His body and blood it would go a very long way to freeing their souls to seek Him in Spirit and Truth.
When I was a catholic, it was not as though I didn't like being called a Christian, I just didn't think I was good enough to be called a Christian. For that matter, I knew I wasn't living up to the requirements of the Catholic Church either. Now, I don't do works based stuff anymore. 😇
even if they commit those sins, and even if for some reason, they don’t feel sorry for them, they are still saved.
I understand that we can commit sins and still be saved if we hate our sin and are sorry for committing them. But this is where you lose me; that we are still saved even if we don’t feel sorry for our sins?
That is a contradiction with 1John the first three or four chapters isn’t it. One of the ways we know we have His Spirit in us is that we hate our sins, even as Christ has dealt with the penalty for them and they are no more in God’s sight.
In what way do the Nicolaitans resemble the Catholic Church?
You ever been angry at someone?
Sometimes you can wrong them and not feel sorry for it.
But that doesn’t mean you’ll ALWAYS be like that.
One problem I see Catholics having is that they focus on the immediate and don’t seem to allow for the fact that, yes, at the moment someone can willfully sin and yes, at the moment, not feel sorry or repentant for it. But that doesn’t mean they never will be. Or that God doesn’t work in their lives to change their attitude.
What happens in the moment is not set in concrete, so the scenarios that Catholics set up of a believer and sin, do not allow for what could happen in the future. Nothing is as black and white as in the manufactured scenarios they present to us and demand an answer for.
So, yes, if I sin and don’t feel sorry for it at the moment, or even for a long time, I am still saved. I don’t have to repent of each and every single sin I ever committed. God gives a judicial pardon, canceling the record of debt that stands against me in a one time act.
Once I’m adopted into His family, I’m there, even if I sin. The difference is, when I do sin, God deals with it differently than revoking my salvation.
Salvation isn’t based on our feeling sorry for our sin.
We commit sin. The wages of sin is death.
When we turn to Christ for forgiveness, we confess and repent, admit to God what we did was wrong, and turn from it.
Now, you may and probably will feel sorry for your sin, but that is irrelevant.
Salvation isn’t based on emotions. It’s based on the fact of the finished work of Christ on the cross being applied to our life.
Now, once one is born again, then they will feel sorry for their sin but that isn’t what keeps one saved.
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