Posted on 07/01/2015 7:13:05 AM PDT by RnMomof7
Recently there has been a surge in prominent Evangelicals calling for unity with Roman Catholicism. In one sense there seems to be strong foundational similarities that would justify these calls to unity. Catholics are baptized in the name of the Trinity. God’s revealed word in the Bible -- setting aside their addition of the Apocryphal books, for argument’s sake -- is foundational to their worldview. Catholics love Christ and believe that he died on the cross and rose again to provide grace for sinners.
Obviously there are theological differences associated with the specific teachings of each one of these perceived similarities, and I do not want to minimize the importance of these differences. But for argument‘s sake, at least on the surface, there is some common ground.
There is also a strong agreement in ethical standards. Both Roman Catholics and Evangelicals ground morality on God’s holy nature as revealed in the law of God. This means that on the hot button moral issues of the day; the murder of the unborn, human sexuality, the sanctity of marriage there is solidarity between Roman Catholic and Evangelical ethics because they are coming from the same source. Again, this seems to justify a call to some sense of unity.
Are these good enough reasons to publically stump for visible unity with Roman Catholics? That question is beyond the scope of this post. But there is a more fundamental question that must be answered first. That question serves as the dividing line between followers of Christ and the world, which separates biblical Christianity from every other worldview; does Rome possess and preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
The author of the book of Hebrews in chapter 10 contrasts the gospel with that which is but a shadow of the gospel. He argues:
"And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified." -- Heb 10:11–14
The argument being presented here makes it clear that Christ’s singular sacrifice, his death on the cross, perfects those for whom it is made for. This is the gospel. It is contrasted with the shadow of the gospel in which sacrifices were repeatedly made year after year because though they symbolized the atoning and perfecting sacrifice of Christ, they never themselves perfected those for whom they were made. The gospel of Jesus Christ perfects and any other religious strategies cannot.
This principle is directly applicable to the question of Roman Catholicism and the gospel of God. Roman Catholic worship centers on the mass. The mass is a series of liturgical practices that culminates in the Eucharist which according to paragraph 1068 of the Catholic of the Catholic Church (hereafter CCC) is a divine sacrifice. Paragraph 1367 of CCC calls the Eucharist a “truly propitiatory” sacrifice. This sacrifice is performed repeatedly in the life of a Catholic.
The reason the Eucharist is performed repeatedly is because even though it is claimed to be a propitiatory sacrifice that can make reparation for sins (CCC, 1414), it is a sacrifice that never perfects anyone. According to the Catholic message grace is something that you get from God by performing certain acts. First, God gives you the grace for faith in Jesus (CCC, 2000). Second, when you are baptized God graciously erases the sin of Adam from your record (CCC 1257). From that point on you get more grace by doing things like participating in the sacraments, including the Eucharist. The problem is that when you commit sins, you lose some of the grace you have gained and now need more lest your grace be found wanting at final judgment. This forces the Catholic into a position where they need to return day after day, week after week, and year after year to a priest who serves to repeatedly re-present the same sacrifice which never perfects those for whom it is made, since it only offers grace to cover some sin.
This is not the gospel.
Roman Catholics need the gospel for the same reason we all need it. We are all sinners with such a messed up and low view of how holy holiness really is that we think somehow through our own efforts we can attain it. If we just had enough time and willpower we could somehow have our good deeds outweigh our bad, and this will please God just enough for me to be acceptable to him. This is a satanic lie. A satanic lie that to some degree or another we have all bought into at some point in our life.
But the truth is glorious. God is good and God is holy. He is more good and more holy than we can possibly imagine. God is so good and so holy that anything less than absolute perfection is unacceptable in his presence. It is because of God’s awesome goodness and awesome holiness that in his wisdom he has offered us grace, through faith in Christ. A good and holy sacrifice that absolutely without question completely perfects everyone for whom it is made.
Bless you. It is hard when you start losing everyone you love. But I bet at your age you have plenty of wisdom to share with the younger generation of your family. I see your family has longevity in its genetics. That’s pretty amazing! I’ll pray for you for your appointment Monday and that God will give the Dr’s wisdom to figure out what’s wrong with your eye and fix it.
.....”It distresses me, perplexes me to no end, to try to account for evident divisions within the Body of Christ”....
This might be helpful...
1 Corinthians 11:18-19 reads... .....”For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you... ‘in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized.’
Jesus also said there would be splits and conflict within the church in the last days....that it would be a sign for us so that we could recognize ‘the season’ of His return.
Matt 24:10-12 “And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold.”
Romans 16:17-18 reads....”I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles.... ‘contrary to the doctrine’... that you have been taught; avoid them..... For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
I think the cause of the many divisions in recent years have been Doctrines, which cannot be proven upon the basis of the teachings within God’s word,...these ‘are elevated as a substitute for truth’,....which in turn does lead to factions within the Body of Christ.
Paul worte....”For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.... Therefore ‘watch’,.... and remember that for three years I did not cease .to warn. everyone night and day with tears.” Acts 20:28-31
and again...In Thessalonians Paul warns the church,... “Let no one deceive you by any means; ...for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first….” (II Th 2:3)
......” the Catholic Church is the overarching truth, and to the extent that a sect, or denomination, or different faith ‘aligns with the Catholic Church’ in any way to any extent, then to that extent are they ‘in the truth’...... Because of this, we can stand shoulder to shoulder with others in these spheres of commonality.”.........
Would it be fair then to say you believe then that ‘all faiths’ are acceptable to catholics when there is commonality in and issue or similar teachings? ...and this because catholics believe that those of other faiths need to either “return” under the Pope and Vatican even if they might practice another faith such as Hinduism or Mormonism, or Islam for that matter.???
When any person rejects faith in the judgment of Christ on the Cross, they have rejected the Gospel.
There is only one doctrine which isolates the RCC from the Church. It begins with the Gospel.
This rejection of the Gospel is indicated in the premises stated for rejecting Protestants. The premise of many Roman Catholics is to place their faith in the Church prior to faith in Christ on the Cross.
That misplaced faith, prior to the Gospel, is further degenerated by substituting good for what is Holy. This is consequent to eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It is the same mistake of original sin.
Ping to a video debate you might want to watch, regarding the Transubstation in the Mass. Zins was a Catholic Priest, so it is a good guess that he knows what he is about. He is an Early Church Historian so he is very well versed in the writings of the early Christian Fathers.
Concerning complications, God warns us as follows:
“the Catholic Church is the overarching truth”
If that were true your CC would not disagree with Holy Scriptures both would be one consistent word.
It was indeed sir. 😂😇 It showed me everyday how far I fell short of the ideal, so yes, it was bad for my self esteem. 😎
Let me try. When I was a catholic, I was told that salvation was by faith alone, by evangelicals. I don't know why I didn't like that. Maybe it was my human pride, telling me that it couldn't possibly be that simple. I thought I had to add my good works to it, and jump through all sorts of hoops, then maybe I might qualify for purgatory, but then again, maybe not. After awhile, I figured out what they were telling me was true. It really IS by faith alone, and it really IS that simple. If people can't see it, that's on them. It is simple.
The emergence of the ecumenism movement is an alarming thing to behold. Frankly, it is the very epitome of the Laodicean Church.
Yep, if people refuse to accept the truth of the simplicity of Christ, there really IS only a certain looking for fiery judgement. Remember, God has a fire we know nothing about, that is INFINITELY, INFINITELY, INFINITELY worse than anything any one of us can imagine. I have no desire to feel that kind of fire forever. I would rather be in Heaven, with all those horrible, terrible sinners, who were so evil, they realized it and fled to Jesus to forgive their sins.
I’m a Protestant...a Calvinist..
I don’t know what an “Evangelical” is suppose to be and this is not the first time I have said so..
My Huguenot ancestors were murdered or died in wars or fled their countries and lost lands and property to live free and worship God..and so they came to America..
And I know a little of how they were treated in their own homelands because they believed and worshipped differently than others..
Born in an Irish Catholic province and Catholic town in New Zealand, I was never quite good enough because I was a Protestant and the town leaders and the school authorities were mostly Catholic and we had to do more to be acceptable..
One of my older sisters excelled in sports and put our school on the map..the next sailed through high school with the highest grades...and so I entered high school with the path paved somewhat for me by the endeavors of my bright and talented siblings..
All I had to do was get good grades and play fairly decent sports..I was not required to be more than excellent just to get a begrudged “That’s OK”
However there were girls ...other Protestant girls...who suffered under the bigotry of the Catholics..I offered wondered why their parents didn’t stand up for them..
I used to watch in misery as an unfortunate Protestant girl was berated by the Catholic headmistress of our public high school..we had a headmaster (principle) and a headmistress..
the girls were the sole domain of the woman..an unmarried aunt in a strong Catholic family..while her nieces and nephews attended the convent school for the elementary grades, the only high school in our area was the public one that everyone went to...(or they went away to boarding school)her family she treated like little princes and princesses..and the other Catholics were treated with respect also..
While I had had glimpses of differential treatment while I was growing up, at age 13 and in high school I saw that I could be actually hated for where I went to Church..
The Catholic Church was on one hill, our Anglican Church was across the street on another...on ANZAC Day, (a day like Memorial Day) we went to our Protestant Church and the Catholics all went across the street to their church
...at a certain time everyone came out and joined to commemorate the dead from our area..
My parents were both from the English/Anglican province of Canterbury and had different ideas than many of the Protestant parents who had been born and brought up in our town...they often spoke about taking us all to live in Canterbury and they eventually moved back home after Dad retired..
When I repeated to my mother the incidents of mental terrorism that the Catholic headmistress inflicted on my helpless friends, my parents discussed the situation and somehow managed to protect their own children...my father had position in our town and was greatly respected which aided me and prevented me from the full volume of the wraith of the headmistress...
while she wasn’t outwardly a Hitler, she was still cruel in subtle ways and her mouth could wound..however nothing but pleasantries were afforded the Catholic students..
Long before I was in high school I would hear my sisters speak of the differences in treatment that the Protestants received in school..they too were miserable until they improved their situation by being the best in their field..still every time a friend suffered, I suffered too..
Were the religious wars of the 16th and 17th centuries being fought again on the playing fields of New Zealand ??? Not quite but the hatred for all things Protestant appeared to be there..personally I felt trapped and my heart quaked every time the headmistress got angry even though her venom was seldom towards me..
and so I grew up knowing someone could hate me for where I went to church...
I don’t comment in the Catholic/Protestant threads a lot but I wanted to clear the air on my own personally experiences ...
Tennessee Nana
Protestant
Yes; your response DOES prove my point again!
And just what WORDS did He just speak?
As Paul Harvey was wont to say...
Oh?
Just HOW do you 'know' this?
Oh?
Just WHY does a SINLESS person need to be SAVED?
Of COURSE!
They were CATHOLICS (to hear it told)!!
The NT is replete with MANY examples of FALSE Catholic teaching that needed correcting!
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