The forgiveness of Sins

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[ADSUM]

All pardon for sins ultimately comes from Christ’s finished work on Calvary, but how is this pardon received by individuals? Did Christ leave us any means within the Church to take away sin? The Bible says he gave us two means.

[MHGinTN]

That wasn't a comment, it was a question. It apparently made you uncomfy so you launched into the programmed catholicism on baptism.

BTW, to which Baptism are you referring? The baptism rite is a very old ritual in Judaism.

[HarleyD]

So are you saying that when someone accepts God, then they do not commit sins after that time and thus there is no need to forgive these sins?

People commit sins before and after they come to Christ. The difference is, according to 1 John is that people do not "practice" sinning.

1Jn 3:9-10 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

We are either children of God and practice righteousness or we are children of the devil who practice sin.

...Please explain the following: “If God has already forgiven all of a man’s sins, or will forgive them all (past and future) upon a single act of repentance, then it makes little sense to tell the apostles they have been given the power to “retain” sins, since forgiveness would be all-or-nothing and nothing could be “retained.”

You are making an assumption that the message in John was only to the apostles. If you read Luke 24:33 you will find it states:

Luk 24:33 And they rose that same hour and returned to Jerusalem. And they found the eleven and those who were with them gathered together,

There were more than apostles gathered in that upper room.

Scripture also teaches that only God can forgive sin (Mark 2:7)

So what did Christ mean when He stated:

Joh 20:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld."

The way Catholics would interpret this would mean that 1) if some are going to hell then Catholics are withholding forgiveness from some, or 2) no one is going to hell because no one is withholding forgiveness. Each of these lines of reasoning is simply wrong.

A more simplier and harmounious interpretation is that Christ is saying if Christians declare that those who genuinely repent and believe the gospel, they will have their sins forgiven by God. Those who don't repent will die in their sins and they will go to hell.

It is no different then the following:

Joh 9:34 They answered him, "You were born in utter sin, and would you teach us?" And they cast him out.
Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"
Joh 9:36 He answered, "And who is he, sir, that I may believe in him?"
Joh 9:37 Jesus said to him, "You have seen him, and it is he who is speaking to you."
Joh 9:38 He said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him. Joh 9:39 Jesus said, "For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind."
Joh 9:40 Some of the Pharisees near him heard these things, and said to him, "Are we also blind?"
Joh 9:41 Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains.

Our Lord extended forgiveness. Our Lord withheld forgivenss.

[Cvengr]

BINGO.

The issue is fellowship with God.

That isn’t gleaned by going through other intermediaries, only through faith alone in Christ alone which is His work on the Cross.

[JPII Be Not Afraid]

The way Catholics would interpret this would mean that 1) if some are going to hell then Catholics are withholding forgiveness from some, or 2) no one is going to hell because no one is withholding forgiveness. Each of these lines of reasoning is simply wrong.

It says what it says. What you forgive is forgiven, what you retain is retained. He was talking to the apostles and disciples. It was the institution of the sacrament of confession. Otherwise there would have been no reason for the statement. What is the point of retaining something if it doesn't matter.

Catholics do not send anyone to hell. God doesn't send anyone to hell, his justice does. Non-repentance of ones sins sends themselves to hell.

[Salvation]

**Catholics do not send anyone to hell. God doesn’t send anyone to hell, his justice does. Non-repentance of one’s sins sends themselves to hell. **

Bingo! The winning answer!

[MHGinTN]

“Non-repentance of ones sins sends themselves to hell.” Are you saying that someone can be justified then lose that justification then get it back again then lose it, then get it back again? ... Are you familiar with the phrase ‘no man’?

[JPII Be Not Afraid]

Yes, you can loose your salvation (enterance into heaven) if you die with unrepentant mortal sin on your soul.

[Mark17]

Ever hear of Jesus giving all authority to the Apostles at the Great commission.

If you are referring to Mattew 28:19-19, then naturally I disagree with your interpretation. He said all authority was given to HIM, not to the disciples. He merely told them what to do. Did He give them power to carry out His will? Of course, but the authority was given to HIM.

[MHGinTN]

John 10:28-31

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one.

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

So, aren't you also 'no man', so that once Justified 'no man' including you, can pluck you from God's hand? I think 'no man is very very very very inclusive, even of you. Justification is different from sanctification. A saved sinner is likely to have sins unconfessed when they die. It would be a shame if you were justified by His blood and it was enough to cleanse you from all unrighteousness. How many of your sins were in the future when Jesus was on the Cross?

[Salvation]

You’re right. The authority was gigven to him and he passes it on to the Apostles when he says, “I will be with you always.”

For me, it’s reading another level into the reading. What else could it mean?

In another place he tells them not to worry about what words to say, for when the time comes, the Holy Spirit (also God) will give them the words.

Didn’t Christ ask the apostles to wait in Jerusalem for the coming of the Advocate and the passing on of his power and authority?

[WVKayaker]

Yes, you can loose your salvation (enterance into heaven) if you die with unrepentant mortal sin on your soul.

Your premise does not conform with what Scripture teaches us. According to Paul...

Romans 7: ... 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

[MHGinTN]

It would be a shame if you were justified by His blood and it was enough to cleanse you from all unrighteousness ... and you went through life believing that you had to keep getting justified, especially if you were nicolaitanized to believe a man in catholic garb was vital to your regainging justification. Wouldn’t that qualify as ‘crucifying again and again The Lord Jesus’?

[JPII Be Not Afraid]

No one is arguing Jesus is our justification. “No man” can determine your salvation but yourself. That is why Jesus says repent and be baptized. Baptism erases all sin on your soul. Because we are human we sin and need forgiveness for sins after baptism, that is when we use the sacrament of confession. Through the sacraments we gain sactfiying grace that help us live as He wants us to and prepares our soul for heaven.

[Mark17]

So where’s the list of deadly sins found in Scripture?

When I was a catholic, I committed a mortal sin about every two minutes. I committed so many mortal sins, I could not keep up with the perfect acts of contrition I needed to do to get saved again. As soon as I got saved again, I would commit another mortal sin, and lose my salvation again. Before too long, I figured I couldn't stop committing mortal sins, so I thought I would just enjoy the sins, pretty much like all my high school classmates. It was eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die. Later, I found out that even the smallest venial sins, are all mortal sins, and one tiny little sin, is enough to send someone to Hell. I said thanks, but no thanks. That ain't going to cut the mustard for me.

[JPII Be Not Afraid]

We are sinful. That is why we need the sacrament of confession

[MHGinTN]

Um, didn’t you post that a person can lose then regaing their Justification?

[saradippity]

What country,what diocese and during which years was this very unusual catholicism taught?

[Mark17]

Yes, you can lose your salvation (enterance into heaven) if you die with unrepentant mortal sin on your soul.

Sorry, there are no degrees of sin. Some sins might have greater consequences, but every sin you commit, and we all commit a ton of them, is a mortal sin. I invite you to have a nice forever. I intend to. 😇😱

[Mark17]

What country,what diocese and during which years was this very unusual catholicism taught?

At St Mary's church in Grand Forks, ND. I agree with you, Catholicism is very unusual, but I am an ex catholic now, so I don't do it anymore. Praise God for that. Again I say, have a nice forever. I intend to. 🔥😱😇

[JPII Be Not Afraid]

That is why the way is narrow. No one said it was easy to follow Christ. We all have our crosses to bare, some harder then others. You will always be Catholic if you were baptized Catholic and your life is not over, so God must not be done with you yet. I, along with other Catholics who read this, will pray for peace in your life and for whatever God’s will is to give you that peace.