Posted on 06/01/2015 11:54:08 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
I am not equation homosexuality or heterosexuality with pedophilia, nor am I saying that Josh Duggar ever committed homosexual acts at any point in time in any way, shape. form or fashion.
The point of this thread is like all of the others threads that I have written, and it is not meant to bash Josh Duggar. The point is to look at this situation and use it as a catalyst to continue on with other threads that I have started that deal with the following: "What constitutes salvation?" "Who is truly saved?" "Do we go by Arminianism or Calvinism?"
If Josh Duggar committed acts of molestation at age 14-15 (allegedly) and if what the Duggars have said is true that Josh Duggar gave his life to Jesus at age 7-8, was Josh Duggar truly saved at that age or was he falsely saved?
If he was saved at age 7-8 and later did commit these alleged acts, did he lose his salvation at that time of the alleged acts or sometime before he committed these alleged acts?
A.) I believe that 1.) molesting kids is a sin just as 2.) homosexuality is. There are those who disagree with me and say that 1 is a sin but 2 is not. So be it. The point that all would agree on is that #1 is at least equal to or worse a sin than #2 is, be #1 being same sex or opposite sex molestation.
If Josh Duggar committed these alleged acts then and was saved before he committed these alleged acts and saved still even after committing these alleged acts, can another person then commit homosexual acts at that age and still be saved both before and after committing them?
If not, and a person at age 14-15 commits homosexual acts and this is proof that they were falsely saved and were never saved to begin with, then was Josh Duggar, if he committed these alleged acts, falsely saved at that time?
If so, and he and his family said after he was age 7-8 that he was saved, how do we know now that he is saved if he says now that he is saved? How can we know wh9ch Duggar is saved and which isn't?
How do we know that some 'Joe Blow' person out there who goes down to the altar, is heard giving his life to Jesus, shows good fruit until he is 18, goes off to Bible college to become a Baptist minister and is still showing good fruit, graduates, becomes a youth minister and then later on goes off the rail after his wife and child die in a car accident and is out fornicating, smoking pot like it is going out of style, drinking like a fish and so on? Was this 'Joe Blow' ever truly saved?
If he is "out of fellowship with Christ" but still saved then if a person were to commit these alleged acts that Josh allegedly committed, would they be "out of fellowship" with Christ but still saved? If so, and #1 is at least worse than or as bad as #2 in A.) above, can a person commit homosexual acts and be "out of fellowship with Christ" yet still saved?
Problem is, the Bible says “The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it?”
You may be telling yourself that you are saved, but it is your deceitful, wicked heart telling you this when you aren’t truly saved.
Secondly, you may say “God told me that I am saved,” but again it is just your deceitful wicked heart telling you that God is saying this when it isn’t God telling you are saved.
And one can repeat what the scriptures say in Romans 10:9-10 and be deceiving themselves that they have been truly saved as their deceitful heart is deceiving them into believing they have made a true confession of faith.
“But how do we know if Josh Duggar was truly saved or falsely saved? How do we know if he backslid at that past time id the allegations are true?”
Not sure why it is any of your business. I’m sure there are plenty of people in your neighborhood, and probably mirror, who sin on a regular basis. How do we know about Josh. Why should we know or be so concerned?
These people had 19 children and invited a TV network into their lives. Warning bells? Red flags? Anyone?
Then Jesus was deceiving others when he said my sheep know my voice.
Can someone who tells a lie be saved? Cheats on his taxes? Skips a worship service? Fails to feed the poor or visit someone in prison? The answer is that God forgives all sin that is repented of in the name of His Son and our Savior, Jesus Christ. Then, as Jesus always says, “Go and sin no more.”
We grade sins as being serious or simply “mistakes.” God does not. Sin is sin, all of them damnable, were it not for Jesus’s perfect life and death which has paid the punishment for all sinners. The only sin that will not be forgiven is the sin of unbelief, because the rejection of the gift of salvation through the death of God’s Son, Jesus, cuts such a sinner off from the mercy of God. Thank God you have forgiveness through the blood of Jesus.
2 At dawn He appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around Him, and He sat down to teach them.
3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group
4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery.
5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?”
6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing Him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with His finger.
7 When they kept on questioning Him, He straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.”
8 Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there.
10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”
11 “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
You are either never saved or you are truly saved or you are falsely saved. There is only one of the three, not some false choice you have conjured up.
Again, was Josh Duggar falsely saved at age 7-8 when he was supposedly “saved”?
Was he falsely saved if he did commit these alleged acts?
If his family said he was saved at age 7-8 and if they continued to say he was saved afterwards, then how do they know that Josh is saved now or is actually falsely saved even were he to say now that he is saved?
His sheep know his voice, but there are some who say that they are his sheep and ay they hear and know his voice, but it is their deceitful, wicked heart telling them that it is His voice they are hearing when they aren’t actually truly hearing His voice.
They made the choice to put themselves on TV. No one forced them. The Duggars passed themselves off as being saved.
We have a right to question if Josh Duggar was falsely saved or if he was saved at age 7-8 but then later backslid, or if any of them are truly saved now or are falsely saved now and fooling others.
Then how does anyone really know?
How can anyone know who is saved or isn’t?
Did Josh Duggar backslide or was he falsely saved? Or was he still saved at age 14-15 but “out of fellowship with Christ” if and when he committed these alleged acts?
If so, and he was still saved, what sins and how many sins does it take a Baptist to finally say “That person over there was never saved to begin with and was falsely saved!”?
You don’t know until you die.
Stupid religion, if that is the case.
3*2 = 6
You are either never saved (and sinned or not sinned) or you are truly saved (and sinned or not sinned) or you are falsely saved (and sinned or not sinned).
Then add know or not know we get 12 choices.. 6*2
With 12 choices it is simple to go round and round.
Neither, go by what God's preserved Word says.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
I don't believe in a works salvation, I just believe in a salvation that works, if salvation is'nt working in a persons life, (i.e a changed life that is now seeking to please God, rather than seeking to please self)than that person does not have the salvation that is promised in God's preserved Word.
Nary a Christian ever lived who didn't think that thought at one time or another.
Me thinks it was the Accuser whispering lies - why do I listen thus to him? I know my Savior and my Saviour knows me!
I find it interesting that so many cockroaches have come out of the woodwork (from another web site) and are sinless enough that they have no problems with casting the first stones.
And boy, are they hurling stones.
I often wonder, what sin did David do that he pleaded with God to forgive the sins of his youth.
Psalm 25:7
New International Version
Do not remember the sins of my youth and my rebellious ways; according to your love remember me, for you, LORD, are good.
1. There where homosexuals back in bible times, just like there are now.
2. There where early Christians that before they where Christians practiced homosexual behavior, but where baptized for the remission of sins, and repented of that homosexual behavior.
3. Christians should FLEE from immorality, a Christians body is a temple of the holy spirit. All Christians sin, and that sin is continually forgiven as forgiveness is asked for. But Christians should not sin for foregiveness to abound, the more a Christian sins, the more the heart is hardened.
How where they saved or washed?
1 Peter 3: 18-22
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.
We are speaking of an adult here.
Josh, being an adult has sinned as all adults have “fallen short of the glory of God” ans have sinned and thus the first part you have is only one, not two possibilities.
Secondly, those who are saved still sin, so it is yet again just one of two.
Third, those who are falsely saved were not saved to begin with and are thus still sinning. Thus, one, not two.
So there aren’t twelve choices.
A person either accepts Christ or rejects Him. If they reject him they are still unsaved.
If they truly accept Him, they are saved.
But we who may be there eat that point are looking on from afar do not know if that person accepting Christ as savior is actually truly saved at that point when they make their confession of faith as they may be just acting and not truly saved, but instead, “going through the motions” and thus falsely saved.
And there is always the possibility that if Josh Duggar did do these alleged acts that he backslid and lost his salvation. And thus it is possible that he can get His salvation back by re-accepting Christ if Arminian doctrine is true.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.