Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mothers womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bibles prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!
The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I dont think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said Its okay . . . nice little dispensationalist. I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were Covenantalists (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.
(Excerpt) Read more at reclaimingthemind.org ...
In your own words, ‘so that they may turn to Him and be saved.’ Why write it thus when you are insisting that they have no choice?
Their response to Him has nothing to do with His genuine concern for them. Genuine.
We agree that God is concerned for His people. What you don’t seem to want to acknowledge is that people are not concerned about knowing God.
That doesn’t matter. God was concerned about them before they responded to Him in Ninevah.
“While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
God’s concern is either real or it is feigned.
Because God doesn't interfer with our will. We have to acknowledge Christ, repent of our sins, and ask Christ to come into our lives. That isn't an issue. The real issue is whether God opens up the eyes and ears of everyone to know enough to open that door. As pointed out in the verses in my last point to you, He does not.
Please think about this for a moment. Do you think you were more clever than someone else in asking Christ into your life? You don't have to answer that question because I already know you don't. There is not a believer here on this site or elsewhere that wouldn't give God the credit for their salvation.
And, let me ask you this; if God COULD force you to love Him, would you want Him to do so?
We do agree that we're in the end times. I believe the evidence is all around. Beyond that I'm not sure how it will all happen. Eschatology is not my thing.
The entire of our disagreement hangs upon the reality of Love, can it be forced or not. I am convinced that God so Loved that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOMSOEVER may choose the salvation by substitution that The Grace of God in Christ offers. If there is no choice then the Grace is not Grace and the Gift of eternal Life is not a gift it is the game played as the inventor of the game arranged it ONLY. Perhaps we shall have an opportunity to discuss this further after we meet int he clouds. Pax vobiscum
God constantly pours His riches out on us day after day after day. The truth people don't care. Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
As Dr. E used to say, "If God wanted everyone saved, they would be saved." Do you think it is loving of God to send people to hell? From my perspective, there are many that would rather reign in hell then serve in heaven. As such, as difficult as it is to fathom, there is not one person who will be misplace or regret where they end up. This is the wisdom, love, grace, and justice of God.
We have much to agree on, but the perspective is not aligned between us. Genuine love is very different from feigned affection. God's forfeits none of His Sovereignty over His creation when He makes the gift of sovereignty for each individual. Loving adds to the lover as it can add to the loved. But love not accepted or returned adds nothing to the loved nor does it diminish the lover. Love is that mysterious thing which adds to the one loving even if the love is no accepted. But if accepted and returned, it builds up both without subtracting from something else.
Justice sends them to hell. I’m fine with that. However, there is a difference between a death penalty for someone you actually cared about and a death penalty for someone you designed never to have a chance.
For the first, you make an actual provision for them to turn.
For the second, you don’t.
Ah....here is the issue. God did not designed us "never to have a chance". God designed us to have fellowship with Him. However, we WILLFULLY do not want to have fellowship with God. Notice what it states in Romans:
We know God. We make a choice. We do not want to honor Him or give thanks to Him. That is our choice. We have a chance; we just choose to reject that chance. Just like Adam in the garden.
But God wants to have fellowship with us despite our wickedness. He wants to make us holy. It is God who has to do something about our wickedness. Please note Ephesians 2:
The real question isn't why doesn't give everyone a "chance" to go to heaven. He does. But people, knowing God, reject wanting to go to heaven.
The real question that should be asked is why does God impose His grace to changes the hearts of some want to seek after Him? Why does God save a remnant? That is where the mystery lies.
God interfers with our will all the time. He certainly did with Paul on the Damascus Road. He did when He flooded the world during the time of Noah. He did in Egypt. There is a whole Bible full of examples of God "interferring" in our lives. God isn't a "hands-off" God. He is very involved in our lives.
They are mutually exclusive. There is monergism which believes God does the work. This is usually identified by Reformers and was the view of the early church. And there is synergism which believes that it takes man's cooperation to some degree. This is probably 90% of what the churches believe to day to varying degrees. Synergism is wrong.
There is no reasonable way to read that except Jesus saying those who had a choice over and over again would not choose God's way. Not because they had no choice but to defy God but because they chose contrary to what God wanted for them.
Absolutely agree.
Not because they had no choice but to defy God but because they chose contrary to what God wanted for them.
Absolutely agree.
That is precisely what I've been saying.
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