Posted on 05/22/2015 4:54:44 PM PDT by OK Sun
I have been taught Dispensationalism from my mother’s womb. I was born in a dispensational environment. It was assumed at my church to be a part of the Gospel. There was never another option presented. It made sense. It helped me put together the Scriptures in a way that cleared up so much confusion. And, to be honest, the emphasis on the coming tribulation, current events that prove the Bible’s prophecy, the fear that the Antichrist may be alive today (who is he?) was all quite exciting. But what might be the biggest attraction for me is the charts! Oh how I love charts. I think in charts. And dispensationalism is a theology of charts!
The first time I came across someone who was not a Dispensationalist was in 1999. I am not kidding. It was the first time! I don’t think I even knew if there was another view. It was when I was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary (the bastion of Dispensationalism) and I was swimming with some guys who were at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Once they discovered I was a dispensationalist, they giggled and snickered. They made fun of the rapture, the sacrificial system during the millennium, and the mark of the beast (which, at that time, was some type of barcode). It was as if they patted me on the head and said “It’s okay . . . nice little dispensationalist.” I was so angry. I was humiliated. I was a second-rate theologian. They were “Covenantalists” (whatever that was). But they were the cool guys who believed in the historic Christian faith and I was the cultural Christian, believing in novel ideas.
(Excerpt) Read more at reclaimingthemind.org ...
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>> “IF there is a true wrath from God (the tribulation) can the Church suffer that wrath?” <<
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That question is a nonsequitur.
The tribulation is Satan’s wrath, not Gods.
God’s wrath comes after the trib is over, after we are resurrected at the Last Trump. God’s wrath is the bowl judgements, which last ten days, after which we return with Yeshua to reign with him for 1000 years.
All of Yeshua’s bride will remain on Earth through the trib, but as he promised the Philadelphians, those that have kept his feasts, and his commandments will be protected through the trib in a place he prepares in the desert.
Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology are equally wrong, and both completely apart from the word of God.
There is one word, and one covenant, which was renewed in Yeshua’s blood at the crucifixion.
The word of God is total nonsense to you?
OK, live with it.
No, your twisting and misinterpretation of scripture is nonsense.
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>> “The point is, the first approximately 3.5 years of the tribulation are NOT the wrath of God, they are (like we are undergoing now), the permissive will of God.” <<
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The word is clear that the trib is 42 months.
It is equally clear that the trib is Satan’s tribulation of the saints.
Finally, The saints, all of them, are “The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, and those that sojourn with them.”
To try to separate “the saints,” and “The House of Israel” is insanity, and a total rejection of the entire word of God.
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You are the twister!
Skipping over the entire word of God is what is required to achieve Dispensationalism and Covenantalism.
The Holy Spirit is not “He who lets.”
He who lets is Satan/Lucifer, who has accused the brethren before God since the moment he confused Eve into luring Adam into sin.
He is soon to be taken out and cast down to Earth. That will begin the tribulation of the saints, just as Paul explained to the Corinthians and the Thessalonians.
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AMEN. And if a person believes that Paul was given, by Christ, the building and ministry of the Church the Body of Christ, then that person KNOWS, without a doubt, WHEN the Body began, WHAT the BOdy’s purpose was here on earth, and WHEN and HOW that Body will be removed from earth.
Total Nonsense is right. There IS someone who is going to be “taken out of the way”. It’s called the Church the Body of Christ, and “taken out” means RAPTURED.
You will find that the followers of Rood and Rood himself are of their father. Reasoning with them is out of the question for they have everything upside down and backwards so they cannot recognize truth when it slaps them in their smug, self-aggrandizing faces. The truth is not in them.
Scripture says there's a Second Coming, not a One and a Half then a Second. No "sorta" coming that doesn't count because it's just nearby without a touchdown on the physical earth, either.
You ignorance of the History of the issue of the Rapture is showing. It is not a Darby creation, but of course that means little to one who gets his/her/its kicks from spittling at posters.
When Peter stood up on the day of Pentecost and declared that the last days had come (Acts 2:16,17) he demonstrated that he was totally ignorant of God's plan to usher in another dispensation. Of grace. That would be interjected between Acts and the tribulation period.
It wasn't a failing in Peter himself, on the day of Pentecost the followers of Christ were all FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST"(Acts 2:4).
What Peter said was, ACCORDING TO PROPHETIC SCRIPTURES, CORRECT. In the face of what had happened and what was happening, they were indeed in the last days.
This is clear if we simply remember not to ANTICIPATE REVELATION. If we remember that God's PURPOSE concerning THIS PRESENTY DISPENSATION was then STILL A MYSTERY. As far as God's REVEALED PROPHETIC PLAN was concerned, the last days- that had so long been prophesied and hoped for (Gen.49:1, Num. 24:14; Deut.4:30; Isa. 2:2; Dan. 2:28; Hos. 3:5; Mic. 4:1, Joel 2:28,29) had begun. Israel's long-promised Messiah had appeared, had died, and risen again, had ascended to God the Father's right hand and had sent the Holy Spirit to guide and empower His believers as they prepared to go through Daniel's 70th week, the tribulation. The next item on the prophetic program would be the tribulation period with the judgment of the nations (the gentiles) and Messiah's return, to set up His kingdom. (The kingdom they asked Him about in Acts1:6).
This is why Peter stood up and said "THIS IS THAT which was spoken by the prophet Joel:" (Acts 2:15-20). So this was the situation on the day of Pentecost. The apostles didn't preach Christ dying for our sins, because they didn't know that yet. They had a ministry of prophecy concerning Messiah and His kingdom, of which they were to rule in, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.
This is the whole point of OT prophecies: the coming of Messiah and the establishment of His kingdom in the last days. Even the NT Scriptures view Christ's coming and kingdom as the great climax of the prophetic program (Mark 1:15, Luke `:68-75; Acts 3:21-24, 1 Peter 1:11).
Peter's great Pentecostal message was given to a large body of Jews from many countries who had gathered a t Jerusalem to observe the feast of Pentecost. It represented the beginning of the harvest for the nation of Israel, from a scattered nation to a complete nation.
When the Holy Spirit came and they began speaking in tongues, they knew what was happening. Joel's prophecy was being fulfilled. This is why you will not read of Peter stating that Christ died for our sins, and preaching the cross as good news, or declaring the gospel of the grace of God. He did not know this yet. And he would not know it until Paul. Paul was given the dispensation of the grace of God to minister to the Gentiles and believing Jews.
Peter and the 11 were doing exactly as Christ had commissioned them to do: Preach the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM.
Anticipating revelation is what confuses the situation. If Acts (and the whole Bible for that matter) is read just as it is written, you will see that the prophecy of the OT, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and Acts up to the point of Acts 9, and Hebrews through Revelation is all about prophecy. The Messianic Kingdom. Only Acts 9-28, and Romans through Philemon speak of a mystery, hid in God from before the foundation of the world until revealed to Paul who revealed it to us. That was the commission Christ gave to him. Peter and the 11 could not preach of the mystery, and the grace of God, and the preaching of the cross as good news because it was HID IN GOD UNTIL IT WAS REVEALED TO PAUL.
Here is an example of this: "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou AT THIS TIME RESTORE AGAIN the KINGDOM TO ISRAEL?" (Acts 1:6).
"And he said unto them, It is NOT FOR YOU TO KNOW THE TIMES OR THE SEASONS, which the FATHER HAS PUT IN HIS OWN POWER." (Acts 1:7.
Times and seasons. Dispensations. That God the Father has in His own power. That are given according to His purposes and will.
I had NO IDEA that St. Paul was a follower of DARBY!!! Who knew, when he wrote his epistles, he was reading Darby and understanding the rapture of the Body of Christ through him...lol!
Excellent teaching!
Bwahahaha ... I wonder if Catholics actually read the Bible or just have passages read to them, selected of course by the ... well, I better stop right there!
AMEN, Les Feldick! He is an EXCELLENT teacher!
The tribulation prophecy period of Daniel is 7 years...Daniel knew nothing of the church...It is a Jewish prophecy for Jews...The 'church is not there...
That is not to say there won't be a limited Rapture in the middle of the tribulation...But it will not be the main harvest...It will be the gleanings...
The Resurrection has 3 parts...The first fruits, the harvest and then the gleanings...
This tempting or testing comes during the first half of the tribulation...They will be tempted to take the Mark of the Beast...They will be tempted to fall in line with the one world religion, or starve, etc...
Jesus says we will not go thru that testing; temptation...
LOL! Well, I don’t live in Pilot Mountain, so that building cannot be my “church”, now can it?
The only rapture there will be is the first resurrection, at the end of the tribulation of the saints.
"Blessed is he who has part in the first resurrection..."
Is it written anywhere 'blessed is he that hath part in a secret rapture?'
Yeshua went out of his way in Matthew 24 to tell us this, and that there would be nothing done in secret.
Paul's response to the Thessalonians when they had been told that a rapture had come and gone was that it was not possible because the man of sin must come first.
2Thessalonians 2:
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
[2] That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
[5] Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
[6] And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
[7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Dismiss it all you wish, but that is what the word of God says. Would the Thessalonians have had any reason to be troubled if they were going to be secretly raptured?
Would Yeshua not have told his disciples if there were a secret rapture coming?
Paul said the same to the Corinthians in chapter 15 by telling them that it would be at the last trump.
1Corinthians 15:
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Dispensationalism is strong delusion, and crafted by Satan.
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