" The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success
unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly -
- it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."
Posted on 05/01/2015 2:36:22 PM PDT by NYer
It has never been proved from the scriptures...
The Orthodox Church has an interesting take on it...The early Church believed that it was Peter's confession that is the rock (as do the early church fathers)...They also teach that ALL bishops are the result of Apolstolic succession with the same benefit package that Peter was given...Not just that list of successors that Rome came up with...
You mentioned it; so... do you BELIEVE it's recommendations?
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16 “‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]—
18 things known from long ago.[c]
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] [d] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.
Really, that's asking a lot.
HMMMmmm...
I'm expected to accept that three Portuguese speaking children (Lúcia Santos and her cousins Jacinta and Francisco Marto) REALLY brought a message from Jesus' earthly mother?
In for a penny...
Ask Augustine; for he SURELY knew more than all you #Catholic_talking_heads on FR!
Iscool: Cider is made from apple juice.
Really? You state that oranges aren’t used?
Really?
You are trying to portray yourself as smarter than AUGUSTINE!!
Wow!
I find it strange that neither of these 'facts' are in evidence.
The early church fathers were not Catholic...They believed in scripture alone as well as Jesus being the rock that his church was built on...And Peter’s confession as being the rock of Peter...
It is well known that Ignatius’ (the bedrock of the existance of the Catholic religion) writings were forged...There is NO Catholic religion in the original 7 books that Ignatius wrote...
It is not known how many of the early church fathers’ writings were tampered with by Eusebius, the famed Constantine historian threw whom most of all the old writings flow thru...But it is suspected a great many were...
The Catholic religion didn’t exist until a number of false Christian reprobates, so-called bishops moved in with Constantine and his massive Roman army who ultimately crushed most of the true Christians and their bibles...
We KNOW what Rome has pounded into your heads to 'call' her; but the FACT remains that she was NOT ever 'called' that in the Bible.
Maybe; but STILL not biblical!
Ain’t! that something? Take care, fine spirit.
CCC 424 "Moved by the grace of the Holy Spirit and drawn by the Father, we believe and confess: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God.' ON THE ROCK OF THIS FAITH CONFESSED by St. Peter, CHRIST BUILT HIS CHURCH!
Then I would suggest that all Catholics read the statements of Bishop Joseph Georg Strossmayer at Vatican I in 1870 on the subject.
"I say no more, my venerable brethren; and I come now to speak of the great argument - which you mentioned before - to establish the primacy of the bishop of Rome by the rock (petra). If this were true, the dispute would be at an end; but our forefathers - and they certainly knew something - did not think of it as we do. St. Cyril in his fourth book on the Trinity, says, 'I believe that by the rock you must understand the unshaken faith of the apostles.' St. Hilary, Bishop of Poitiers, in his second book on the Trinity, says, 'The rock (petra) is the blessed and only rock of the faith confessed by the mouth of St. Peter;' and in the sixth book of the Trinity, he says, 'It is on this rock of the confession of faith that the church is built.' 'God,' says St. Jerome in the sixth book on St. Matthew, 'has founded His church on this rock, and it is from this rock that the apostle Peter has been named.' After him St. Chrysostom says in his fifty-third homily on St. Matthew, 'On this rock I will build my church - that is, on the faith of the confession.' Now, what was the confession of the apostle? Here it is - 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' Ambrose, the holy Archbishop of Milan (on the second chapter of the Ephesians), St. Basil of Seleucia, and the fathers of the Council of Chalcedon, teach exactly the same thing. Of all the doctors of Christian antiquity St. Augustine occupies one of the first places for knowledge and holiness. Listen then to what he writes in his second treatise on the first epistle of St. John: 'What do the words mean, I will build my church on the rock? On this faith, on that which said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' In his treatise on St. John we find this most significant phrase - 'On this rock which thou hast confessed I will build my church, since Christ was the rock.' The great bishop believed so little that the church was built on St. Peter that he said to the people in his thirteenth sermon, 'Thou art Peter, and on this rock (petra) which thou hast confessed, on this rock which thou hast known, saying, Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God, I will build my church - upon Myself, who am the Son of the living God: I will build it on Me, and not Me on thee.' That which St. Augustine thought upon this celebrated passage was the opinion of all Christendom in his time." http://crossbearer-brian.tripod.com/id197.htm.
Other parts of scripture verify that it's the confession that Jesus is the Son of God that saves and that the ekklesia is built on.
1 John 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Acts 5:14 And all the more believers in the Lord, multitudes of men and women, were constantly added to their number,
Simon the Magician is Simon Magus and more information on him can be found in secular writings as well.
No disagreement here; just want to point out the FACT that Pete is NOT the only fella involved.
I agree. To say that Pete was the only fella involved would be totally going against Scripture.
Peace,
Rich
You want to call her Mary, the mother of God Incarnate, go ahead, that’s more precise.
I saw what you did there.
snicker
You mentioned it; so... do you BELIEVE it’s recommendations?
I believe that the recommendations were a compromise. Verse 7 points out that there was much discussion. It appears that Peter and Paul did not want the Gentiles to be required to follow any part of the law, but that James and his strict followers wanted them to follow the law in the same way that they did. So what James proposed was to have them follow parts of the law that were not difficult. And when they read it and were glad, I’m sure they were really glad that they did not have to follow one of the most difficult parts of the law, do you know what I mean!!??
Now wait just a minute here. You mean to tell me that Peter with his extra powers, first among equals, the ONE whom all of the other Disciples looked to for leadership, the ONE who has the KEYS for crying out loud, didn’t just TELL James this is how it is because I said so? He didn’t put on a tall funny looking hat, and say hey I’m speaking Ex Cathedral here. I’m starting to doubt that Peter (who the CHURCH was built on!) was any more special than the others.
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