Posted on 05/01/2015 2:36:22 PM PDT by NYer
True! I have no problem with that :o)
Why is it so critical to either yourself or to Catholics to declare that Mary is the mother of GOD?
For me, it is not about what the Catholic Church says nor is it about Mary. You are absolutely correct that Mary did not pre-exist God. Nor did she give Him His divinity.
It is about Jesus and what He did for us as described in Philippians 2:6-8:
“Who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God something to be grasped. Rather, he emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, coming in human likeness; and found human in appearance, he humbled himself, becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross.”
He humbled Himself, becoming obedient to death. He also humbled Himself by being obedient to Mary. Even though she was highly favored, she was still a human being, and for God to be obedient to a creature, or to call her mother, had to be demeaning to Him. Although there were times He had to remind Mary of His divinity, He was obedient to her as part of His redemptive actions to bring us to Salvation.
A secondary reason is that Scripture so clearly reveals that this child that Mary brought forth is God. A woman becomes a mother in the very act of giving birth to a child, and is a mother to all that the child is. It is in this way that Mary can be called the mother of God. Not that she gave this holy child his divinity; but that she gave birth to this divine child.
Not very cool of you.
Yes you can. You can answer my questions. Why did Jesus give Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven? What are these keys exactly? Are they gold? Are there more than one set? Is Peter the only person Jesus gave these keys to? Catholics really turn to these verses right here a lot and I thought you would have some insight on the keys.
So you disagree with the protestant scholars?
He understood everything and nothing. He knew Jesus was the Christ, the Son of the Living God. But he didn't see why He should have to suffer. Jesus called him "Rock," called him "Satan" (Adversary), and called him three times to be the chief shepherd of the sheep after Jesus would ascend into heaven.
There's so much there for all of us to relate to.
Here's a picture of a guy fishing on the Sea of Galilee. I think Peter looked like that.
I agree.
Because scripture does not give her this attribute.
You don't say!!!! Not there at all ey?
>>In the same way, it cannot be shown where the Holy Spirit ever inspired anyone to write that “Jesus is God.” But we believe that Jesus is God.<<
Jesus Himself says He is God.
Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
"Why did Jesus give Peter the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven?"
To indicate that he would have authority in the Kingdom of God to open and shut the door.
What are these keys exactly?"
A reference to the foreshadowing found in Isaiah. You might want to re-read the Isaiah 22 reference.
"I will clothe him with your robe,
gird him with your sash,
confer on him your authority.
He shall be a father
to the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
and to the house of Judah.
I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder;
what he opens, no one will shut,
what he shuts, no one will open."
"Are they gold?"
No. They are not a physical set of keys.
"Are there more than one set?They are not a physical set of keys. There are no doubt different kinds and degrees of authority.
"Is Peter the only person Jesus gave these keys to?"
If you're talking about different kinds and degrees of authority, God has appointed a number of people to positions of service and authority. As you no doubt know, Paul said it is God who makes these special appointments:
1 Cor. 12:28-29I know you know this, because I quoted it to you just six hours ago. Perhaps you'll benefit from re-reading it:
And God has appointed in the church,
first apostles,
second prophets,... (etc. etc.)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3285355/posts?page=175#175.
So there are different kind of leadership. With respect to the "Power of the Keys," though, in Matthew 16:19, Jesus is specifically addressing Peter. That was given to Peter and to his successors. Various kinds of specialization, localization and delegation have emerged over the centuries, which is inevitable when the number of believers and local churches gets larger and larger.
For instance, St. Athanasius (his feast day is today) said in his letter Ad Afros, that there were 318 bishops at the Council of Nicaea in 325 that would be just 275 years after the Council of Jerusalem. The successor of Peter--- Pope Sylvester himself --- did not personally attend; instead, he sent two legates.
So you could say the "Power of the Keys" has a larger, ecclesial implication. It does not signify only a solo, lone-ranger sovereignty.
Oh good grief. Are you saying Jesus was only obedient to Mary? Did He tell Joseph were to get off? Was He not "obedient" to other adults??
The catholic desire to read into the text something that's not there has lead to this false teaching.
If anything, Mary is obedient to Jesus and will be obedient to Jesus.
The catholic has it completely backwards.
A secondary reason is that Scripture so clearly reveals that this child that Mary brought forth is God.
Using catholic "logic", then Mary is the mother of the Holy Spirit.
Again, none of what the catholic purports the scriptures to say are true regarding this.
I’ve been outside all day today and can hardly move, but got a LOT done in the garden.
Now, you show where, using the Bible, we are to told to pray to Mary, bow down to her, rely upon her intervention for our salvation.<<
I am not concerned with showing those other things about Mary.
That the catholic cannot point to the Scriptures for their false teachings on Mary is telling. It should be your first hint that catholic teaching is becoming cultish, if not already there.
Then there's no way that she can be called *mother of God*.
Mother of Jesus is the ONLY appropriate and accurate title to be given her, just as the Holy Spirit inspired the writer's of the NT to do.
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>> “To indicate that he would have authority in the Kingdom of God to open and shut the door.” <<
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That authority belongs only to Yeshua.
The ‘keys’ were given to the apostles, and to a lesser extent their disciples. Those keys are the gifts of the Holy Spirit, to heal, to discern spirits, and to pass the Holy Spirit on to others. That is the portion of the kingdom that was made available to mortal men.
Most of that kingdom is reserved for those that receive new bodies at the day of trumpets. Then “We shall know as we are known.”
Isaiah 22 is completely about Yeshua.
No apostle was ever a Father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, in fact Jerusalem didn’t survive the apostolic age. Isaiah 22 is a prophecy of the millennial reign of Yeshua.
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On what point? That Matthew was written in Aramaic?
Unless they have solid proof of that, yes.
Where are the manuscripts to show it?
On Peter being the Rock? Yes, because PAUL says that the Rock (petra) is CHRIST. Even Peter says as much.
In Matthew Jesus gives Peter the name of Petros - pebble.
What was said in Matthew doesn't invalidate Paul and Peter.
Besides, I really don't give a rip what *scholars* have to say. Human education is no substitute for the enlightening of the Holy Spirit.
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Sun god worshipers desperately need a mother of god to explain how Easter gave birth to the god Tammuz. (Mithra)
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Never mind that there can be no feminine presence in the realm of God.
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I guess we’re back to Catholics thinking that just because something isn’t said in Scripture exactly the way they think it ought to be said, in English, then it doesn’t say it.
Sadly; It was Ellie Mae (who died in 8-21 last year) that gave the milk.
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“Protestant scholars” simply means protestant men seeking recognition, just as catholic scholars are catholic men seeking recognition.
Their scholarship is of value, only to the extent that it agrees fully with the scriptures.
On questions that cannot be settled through the scriptures, they must be treated as fiction until verified by physical fact.
Let’s not worship self aggrandizement.
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