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To: Iscool

I do not wish to get into a point by point discussion regarding Catholic teaching on Mary. I realize there are good Christians, including good friends and members of my family, who have a deep love for Jesus but have different beliefs on the role of Mary. I respect those beliefs.

There are a couple of statements you made that differ from Catholic teaching, though, that I would like to clarify.

First, the Church does not profess that Mary is the mother of God the Father. It is only through her motherhood of the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, that she can be called the mother of God.

Second, to say that all salvation comes through Mary or that Mary heads the church with Jesus overstates what the Catechism actually says.

CCC 970 teaches how Christ shares His priesthood as follows:

“Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.”513 “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.”514 (2008, 1545, 308)

As you can see, this statement does not equate Mary with the Incarnate Word.


650 posted on 04/22/2015 3:43:21 AM PDT by rwa265
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To: rwa265; Iscool
Second, to say that all salvation comes through Mary or that Mary heads the church with Jesus overstates what the Catechism actually says.

It's what the thing says.

While attempting to not do with Mary what you're trying to say, the ccc then goes on the equate it with Mary again.

There are also catholic writings that say Mary and the Holy Spirit are married by use of the term spouse!!!

There are other writings by noted catholics that tell us it's better to go to Mary if you're not getting what you want from Jesus!!!!!

652 posted on 04/22/2015 4:19:00 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: rwa265
I do not wish to get into a point by point discussion regarding Catholic teaching on Mary.

I can understand WHY!!

668 posted on 04/22/2015 5:18:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: rwa265
First, the Church does not profess that Mary is the mother of God the Father. It is only through her motherhood of the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, that she can be called the mother of God.

Even though nowhere in Scripture is she actually called that.

Millions of repetitions of Hail Mary, Mother of GOD kinda sears the conscience.

669 posted on 04/22/2015 5:20:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: rwa265; Alex Murphy; boatbums; caww; CynicalBear; daniel1212; Elsie; Gamecock; Iscool; HossB86; ...
First, the Church does not profess that Mary is the mother of God the Father. It is only through her motherhood of the Son of God, the Second Person of the Trinity, that she can be called the mother of God.

A couple points.

First, by calling her "mother of GOD" yes, the church is saying that she is the mother of GOD. Unless you are going to deny that the Father is God and the Holy Spirit is God, the title makes her the mother of them as well since the church uses the generic term of "God".

Second, by saying that she is the mother of the second person of the Trinity, that is saying that she is the mother of His Godhood, making Him a created being, with beginning. If that is the case, He is no longer GOD with us. He is merely another created being in intrinsic nature.

The title is wrong.

All that it implies is wrong.

The Catholic church was wrong for the hubris of changing the title given Mary by the Holy Spirit, which is "mother of Jesus".

Mary is mother of JESUS, not mother of GOD and all the weasel words, redefining words, convoluted explantions and justifications the church and Catholics put forth to excuse and justify their messing with the God breathed, Holy Spirit inspired word of God cannot change that.

They cannot improve on the work of God and have no right or authority to do so.

Mary is the mother of Jesus, GOD WITH US, the Incarnation; not the mother of GOD.

670 posted on 04/22/2015 5:21:16 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: rwa265
As you can see, this statement does not equate Mary with the Incarnate Word.

Yup; you're sure right!

671 posted on 04/22/2015 5:21:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: rwa265
CCC 970 teaches how Christ shares His priesthood as follows:
“Mary’s function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin’s salutary influence on men... flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it.”513 “No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source.”514 (2008, 1545, 308)

As you can see, this statement does not equate Mary with the Incarnate Word.

Utter nonsense...Jesus does not share his mediation with any one...

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

You are posting the lies of your religion...

963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503

There you have it...The mother of God...And the mother of Jesus...We know what your religion teaches and now you do as well...

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512

So you say Jesus is the source of salvation and grace but here we see then that Jesus doesn't give salvation and grace to anyone but Mary...And it is the job of Mary to divvy out grace and salvation to whom she sees fit...Benefactress, Mediatrix, Advocate...

Those things are attributed only to God in the scriptures...Your catechism makes a deity of Mary...A goddess...And obviously you know it and apparently is why you don't want to get into the fine print...

734 posted on 04/22/2015 11:47:04 AM PDT by Iscool
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