Posted on 04/07/2015 11:01:38 AM PDT by NYer
Q: What is this about the “brothers” of Jesus in the Bible? Did Mary have other children besides Jesus?
A: No.The Church teaches that Mary was a perpetual virgin. Yet, as you mention, the Bible does indeed mention the “brothers” of Jesus. Mark 6:3, “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon...”
The “brothers” of Jesus are clearly mentioned, and named, in the Bible. So, Mary must have had other children and the Catholic Church is wrong when it dogmatically teaches that she was a perpetual virgin, right? Well, not so fast.
First of all, let’s look at Matthew 27:55-56. Here we see named some of the women who were at the Crucifixion. “There were also many women there, looking on from afar...among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses...” It seems that the James and Joses identified in Mark 6:3 as the “brothers” of Jesus, indeed had a mother named Mary, but it was not the same Mary who was the mother of Jesus.
Furthermore, let’s look at Galatians 1:19. Paul is talking about when he went to Jerusalem to consult with the chief of the Apostles, Peter, and while there, “I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord’s brother.”
So, we have James, the “brother” of Jesus as mentioned in Mark 6:3, and James, the “Lord’s brother,” as mentioned in Gal 1:19. And this time James, the Lord’s brother, is identified as an apostle. So, if I’m a Bible-only believer — in other words, if the Bible is my sole rule of faith when it comes to all things related to the Christian Faith — then I have to admit that the James in Mark 6:3 and the James in Gal 1:19 are the same James; after all, how many brothers named “James” would Jesus have?
But there’s a problem for those who would say this James is the son of Mary, the mother of Jesus. You see, this James is clearly identified as an apostle. Yet, of the two apostles named James that we find in the list of the twelve apostles (e.g., Matthew 10:1-4), one of them had a father named Zebedee and the other had a father named Alphaeus — neither one of them had a father named Joseph! Which means, neither one of them was Jesus’ sibling. Neither one of them had the same mother as Jesus. So, the James mentioned in Mark 6:3 and Gal 1:19 as a “brother” of Jesus, is a brother in a broader sense of the word, he was not a brother in the sense of having the same parents.
Now, Catholic tradition (small “t” tradition), often identifies the James in Galatians 1:19 as someone who was not one of the twelve apostles. However, someone who goes by the Bible alone and who does not put any stock in “tradition” cannot use the argument from tradition, because they only accept the Bible as the authority in matters Christian. So, using the Bible alone, one cannot argue that the James in Gal 1:19 is a “third” James who had at some point been named an apostle because the Bible nowhere mentions such a thing.
So, when we look at the “brothers” of Jesus in the broader context of Scripture, rather than just focusing on Mark 6:3, we see that the argument against the perpetual virginity of Mary has no foundation in the Bible.
The Catholics will say they are brothers like fraternity brothers.
45:22 and 46:16 have moved on to a different topic from 44:2
Ezekiel is prophesying about the messianic age in Chapters 40 -48. The fact that the prince is not the messiah does not negate interpreting the Ezekiel 44:2 permanent gate closure as a prefiguration of the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Mother who also contained the Lord.
Two different matters are being discussed. Because the prince is not considered to be the Messiah changes nothing about 44:2..
Call me a die hard optimist but I continue to hope and pray that someone who has bought into sola scriptura will open their eyes to the truth.
The Greek proves Mary and Joseph had other children.
What is the meaning of brother? The first thing to understand is that the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than uterine brothers. It can mean a biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother.
Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:
“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).
Because of the Bible’s broad semantic range of “brother,” we can rest assured that although St. Paul writes, “[Jesus] appeared to more than five hundred…brothers at the same time” (1 Cor. 15:6), we need not infer from this verse that Mary gave birth to more than 500 children!
More importantly, these “brothers” are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).
What is the meaning of brother? The first thing to understand is that the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than uterine brothers. It can mean a biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother.
Context is always your key to understanding the Word. Read, or re-read, the sections involving the brothers and sisters of Jesus. The context will clearly indicate they are from Mary and Joseph.
Because there was no word for cousin?
Families live in little huts that surrounded a common fire pit and a common source of water.
Usually the were relatives and they called these people their brother and sisters?
Even St. Paul uses that term.
Not so
Read about these men and their beliefs.
The Perpetual Virginity of Mary - Brothers and Sisters of Christ?
Virgin Birth—or Prophetic Slip?
The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary
Aeiparthenos (An Anglo-Catholic Priest on Mary's Perpetual Virginity)
[Why I Am Catholic]: Because of the Protestant Reformers Beliefs On Mary
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: Mary: Virgin and Ever Virgin
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
Luther, Calvin, and Other Early Protestants on the Perpetual Virginity of Mary
The Protestant Reformers on the Virgin Mary
Zwingli’s’ Mariology: On Mary “Full of Grace”
It’s a good thing some of those guys didn’t write Scripture ... :-) ...
An honest answer; you do not know. Since you have rejected the tradition for almost two millennia for a new doctrine based on your own authority, you need to be completely correct in your new and evolving doctrines. Mars Hill.
I don’t have to know why, because they didn’t write Scripture and what they say is not authoritative ... :-) ...
All I have to know is the Bible. It is authoritative.
— — —
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
— — —
I don’t need anything from them, but I do need everything from God’s Word.
“Sad to see the Roman Catholic Church go to such lengths...”
Do you realize that Luther and Zwingli also proclaimed that Mary was a virgin and remained a virgin?
So it was the early protestants too who taught that the “brothers” of Jesus are simply kin; It is a modern tradition that they were a bunch of actual full brothers. They would be half brothers anyway since they wouldn’t have the same Father.
The Eastern Orthodox Church also holds this doctrine of Mary’s virginity and reject the notion that she had children after Him.
Are they “sad” as well?
Jesus “brothers” are not Mary’s children. They are step brothers from Joseph being previously married and widowed, or they were kin possibly living in the same household. Adelphos is not a term limited to blood brothers; this is not a Catholic construct.
Yes, you and Mark Driscoll, what could go wrong ? ;as I wrote, you have to be completely correct as you are relying on your own authority.
Post #91 would apply to anyone ... whether today in some cult group, or someone a couple of hundred years ago, or over a thousand years ... :-) ...
Also, Post #74 will help explain it a bit more for you.
I didn’t write the Bible either ... :-) ...
...as I wrote, you have to be completely correct as you are relying on your own authority. -AFvet
Well, so much for God and His Holy Spirit!!! (/Extreme Sarcasm)
Apparently, those from the Roman Catholic cult prefer to rely on devious and corrupt institution, rather than God's Word as illuminated by His Holy Spirit, our Guide... or just call Jesus a liar (but I repeat myself!)!
John 14: ...25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Those individuals who have accepted the Gospel of Salvation, from the Messiah of Israel and are all one under him, but there are different church groups, as the Apostle John evidenced by writing down what Jesus said to the different churches in Revelation.
We have but one Savior, even though we may go to different churches.
It's worth pointing out that each diocese of the Catholic Church is a local church. For instance I live in the Diocese of Charleston, presided over by the bishop of Charleston.
Both you and Mark Driscoll probably believe the same thing about your interpretative authority. I need only apply this test and I know there is one holy catholic apostolic church which one rejects at his peril.
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No html for now, but I can see you are fully indoctrined. You cannot say anything more than that you “believe” you are part of some grand plan from heaven. I can believe the Word of Scripture, but the word of Rome lacks the authentication from the indwelling Holy Spirit.
I know in Whom I believe, and he doesn’t live in Rome!!!
Your Scripture quote does NOT provide for any adherence to your manmade religion. Good luck working out your salvatin. I am resting in mine, already, according to my Lord!
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