Robert Schuller dies at 88, but his legacy of false teachings lives on...[2 Peter 2:1]

Free Republic | 4/2/2015 | Jan Sobieski

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

And anyone who knew the thief on the cross up until he was hung on the cross, would have said the same thing about his salvation as you did about Schuller.

Why did you answer maybe, to your own question about a last minute conversion.

Anyone preaching the true Gospel would answer YES to COULD he had a last minute conversion.

[Iscool]

I don’t disagree with you...I didn’t say Shuller did not end up in heaven...

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

Mark this day down, we agree on something!! :))

[Romans Nine]

You are saying that I don’t preach the true Gospel because you want to split hairs about my answer?

My answer was “sure, maybe” meaning “sure” he could have, “maybe” he did, but neither you or I have any evidence he did or didn’t. We are in the same boat although it appears you have an agenda to promote that I am preaching a false Gospel which I have no idea why.

[Iscool]

Mark this day down, we agree on something!! :))

I was thinking the same thing...

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

I would re-read your post 8 and after praying about it, maybe consider apologizing for it and encourage others that today is the day of salvation and even if one is a murderer, thief, blasphemer, and yes someone who taught a false gospel,their whole life, salvation in Jesus Christ is still possible. We are all sinners and it is possible that by the grace of God, Schuller was saved.

[Romans Nine]

You are inventing something from thin air. You have absolutely no idea or have any reason to believe Schuller made a death bed conversion. I however have ample evidence Schuller was a False Gospel preacher leading many thousands astray. For some reason other than the things you have posted you have a bone to pick and I have no idea why. This is like pig wrestling, It’s been fun but there is nothing profitable.

[kosciusko51]

Of course God can change a man’s nature, the question is does God only want to change some men’s nature ( the elect ) while predestinating those he chooses not to change to hell. Does God desire all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth or just the elect?

If God desired all men to be saved, then all men would be saved. Otherwise, He is not sovereign.

While you say you share the Gospel with all, I wonder what you share. Do you tell everyone that God loves them, that He died for their sins? You can’t and be a consistent Calvinist. You may be sharing the Gospel with someone predestinated to hell, that Jesus did not die for. Do you tell them maybe God loves you?

It is not our job to determine who the elect is. Look at Matt 13, where God compares man to soil, and the word as the seed. We see that the word is to be sent to all men:

“Hear then the parable of the sower.

“When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.

“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.

“And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

“And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty.”

And at John 3, where Jesus clearly teaches that he gives eternal life to those who believe, while the unbeliever is already condemned:

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

And at Acts 13, where the Gentiles who believed were appointed to believe:

But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming.

Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

“For so the Lord has commanded us, ‘I HAVE PLACED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.’”

When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

So, the good news of the Gospel is that Jesus died for those sinners who believe in Him. Or do you believe there will be people in Heaven that did not trust that God sent His Christ to as a propitiation for sin?

Finally, I am not sure how predestination gives anyone comfort. Being a believer does nothing towards salvation, if you are elect you are in, not elect you are damned. Faith is supposed to,be an evidence of being elect, but Calvin taught there are many possessing faith that have a false faith and are not elect.

Why do you call people to repentance, to a consistent Calvinist repentance does not add or subtract from being saved.

Again, we cannot determine who the elect are, but God knows. And that is the crux of the issue. Predestination is what God says about the process from His side of Heaven.

Yet, God also insists that man is responsible for his actions. So, we must never assume that one is not elect. The best we can do is look for outward signs of repentance, since those are signs that one is saved.

I have found most people who claim to be Calvinist, when you actually look at what they say and teach, it is anything but consistent Calvinism.

To that I say, you do not understand reformed doctrine, and your argument is akin to the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

Grace and Peace,

K51

[kosciusko51]

You are correct when you say we are spiritually dead. Therefore, we can never respond to the call unless we are spiritually alive. This is the change in nature.

Also, you assume that the nature follows the will. However, what man wills to do comes out of his nature.

Besides, when you became a believer, did you do it against your will?

I pray you have a blessed Easter weekend.

Grace and Peace.

[kosciusko51]

“do comes” should be “does come”. Bad editing on my part.

[Salvation]

Good post. Thank you. That’s what I was getting at, but you said it much better.

[fwdude]

I have forgotten how Mr. Schuller was apostate. Can you give two or three examples.

LOL! Good sarcasm.\

[kosciusko51]

Nope, I was right the first time. Getting late...

[Elsie]

How many wrecking balls have you bitten thinking it was an apple?

  "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent"

 

 (The Seer, p. 255  Orson Pratt )

[Elsie]

A well-known, successful preacher dies and the “great” Christians look at it as cause to celebrate and trash him some more, dancing on his grave.

Osteen is 'well known'.

Joseph Smith was 'successful'.

But what was the MESSAGE??

 

Acts 17:18-19
 18.  A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. Some of them asked, "What is this babbler trying to say?" Others remarked, "He seems to be advocating foreign gods." They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection.
 19.  Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting?

 

Acts 18:11
    So Paul stayed for a year and a half, teaching them the word of God.

 

 

 

 

 

Romans 15:4
 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.

 

 

Romans 16:17
   I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

 

 

1 Corinthians 4:17
   For this reason I am sending to you Timothy, my son whom I love, who is faithful in the Lord. He will remind you of my way of life in Christ Jesus, which agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church.

 

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
 2.  I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings,  just as I passed them on to you.

 

 

Ephesians 4:14-15
 14.  Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.
 15.  Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings  we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

 

 

2 Thessalonians 3:6
  In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, we command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching  you received from us.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:3-4
 3.  As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer
 4.  nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work--which is by faith.

 

 

1 Timothy 1:7
  They want to be teachers of the law, but they do not know what they are talking about or what they so confidently affirm.

 

 

1 Timothy 2:7
   And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:1-2
 1.  The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
 2.  Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:6
   If you point these things out to the brothers, you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, brought up in the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed.

 

 

1 Timothy 4:11
  Command and teach these things.

 

 

1 Timothy 6:3-5
 3.  If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching,
 4.  he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 
 5.  and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.

 

 

2 Timothy 1:13
  What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.

 

 

 2 Timothy 2:15-17
 15.  Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
 16.  Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly.
 17.  Their teaching will spread like gangrene.

 

 

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 16.  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 17.  so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

 

 2 Timothy 4:3-4
  3.  For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
  4.  They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

 

 

Titus 1:11
   They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach--and that for the sake of dishonest gain.

 

 

Titus 2:1
  You must teach what is in accord with sound doctrine.

 

 

Titus 2:15
  These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

 

 

 Hebrews 13:9
 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

 

 

 2 Peter 2:1-3
 1.  But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
 2.  Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
 3.  In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

 

 

2 John 1:10
  If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him.

[Elsie]

He preached a different gospel than that of Christianity
He may have claimed to be a Christian but by his own words he proved he was not.

[Elsie]

Salvation is only through the righteousness of Christ..

Some folks disagree...

What Joseph Smith Means to Us  (From: various sources )

 

 

 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

---

---

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

INDEED!

The parable of the workers in the vineyard must mean SOMETHING!!!

[Elsie]

LOL!

We DO agree on something; actually on MANY things, but where's the fun in agreeing; singing Kum-by-yah and highfiving each other all day long?

We're to CONTEND for the faith; once given to the saints.

[Elsie]

You have absolutely no idea or have any reason to believe Schuller made a death bed conversion.

Likewise...

You have absolutely no idea or have any reason to believe Schuller did NOT make a death bed conversion.