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On taking John 6 literally
triablogue ^ | October 16, 2005 | Steve

Posted on 03/29/2015 5:59:11 AM PDT by RnMomof7

On taking John 6 literally

Roman Catholics claim to take Jn 6 literally, unlike the Baptists. But what exactly does it mean to take Jn 6 literally, and who is more literal, the Catholic or the Baptist?

1.Here is what I take a literal interpretation of Jn 6 to mean. Some time around the year AD 30 or so, Jesus performed three nature miracles (the multiplication of food, walking on water, stilling the storm) situated on or about (the E. shore of) the Sea of Galilee.

The next day, in a synagogue located in Capernaum, on the NW shore of the Sea of Galilee, a debate took place between Jesus and the Jews, prior to the Last Supper, centering on a comparison and a contrast between Jesus and the manna in the wilderness.

2.What does a “literal” Catholic reading of Jn 6 amount to? They treat Jn 6 as an allegory of the Mass. What it symbolizes is what takes place whenever the Mass is celebrated, every day, in different parts of the world.

They justify this anachronistic and allegorical interpretation on the grounds that they deny the historicity of the original setting and substitute, in its place, a sitz-im-leben supplied by the life of the Johannine community at the tail-end of the 1C or so, residing in Asia Minor or Shangri-la. By “they,” I mean the standard Catholic commentators on John like Ray Brown and Rudolf Schnackenburg.

3.There is also a striking difference in how a Catholic and a Baptist defines a true body. For a Baptist, the true body of Christ would be the same sort of body—indeed, the very same body—as we see on display in the Gospels and Acts (Mt 28:9; Lk 24:39-40,42-43; Jn 20:17,20,24-29; Acts 1:4; 10:41).

This would be the visible, tangible body of a 1C Palestinian Jewish man, of a certain height and weight—a body that you and I would recognize for what it is.

For a Catholic, however, the true body of Christ is an invisible, intangible, unrecognizable entity hidden beneath the species of bread and wine.

One can’t help noticing that the way in which a Catholic defines the true body and real presence of Christ bears a startling resemblance to those millennial cults (e.g., Millerites, Campingites, J-Dubs, hyperpreterists) which predict the visible, bodily return of Christ, only to redraw the terms of fulfillment when their prediction fails to materialize. They assure us that Christ really did return, and is truly is present with his people, but you just can’t see him, that’s all. He actually did come back in AD 70…or was it 1844?…or was it 1914?…or was it 1994?


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; communion; mass; tradition
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To: HossB86

You’re very welcome.

I got the Aquinas bug, get this, 48 years ago! LONG before it ever occurred to me to believe what he argued for. The guy has chutzpah!


141 posted on 03/31/2015 11:16:23 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: Mad Dawg
pat·ent·ly
ˈpat(ə)n(t)lē,ˈpāt(ə)n(t)lē/
adverb
adverb: patently
  1. clearly; without doubt.
    "these claims were patently false"

142 posted on 03/31/2015 1:17:32 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Pfft. I know that!

The problem with these discussions is that it too soon comes around to saying that the reason A disagrees with B is that one of them is stupid or perverse.

It sho isn’t patent to me.


143 posted on 03/31/2015 2:35:07 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: Mad Dawg
The problem with these discussions is that it too soon comes around to saying that the reason A disagrees with B is that one of them is stupid or perverse.

True, but it IS biblical!!

Matthew 15:16   NIV
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

144 posted on 04/01/2015 5:28:00 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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