Praying of the Rosary Is NOT Bible-Based Teaching

The Disciplers ^ | 2011 | Ptr. Vince

[Resettozero]

Thank you for replying. I now have a better feeling of what you were saying in your original post to me.

Stay well.

G’night.

[Iscool]

That happens when you get a Master of Arts in Catholic Philosophical Studies.

Col_2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

A Master's Degree in vanity...Why not...

[painter]

GET Behind Me SATAN!!!!

[painter]

Thank You.

[Iscool]

Don’t forget the blood drinking. Oh and incense burning too. You know what the worst part is? We pass the offering plate twice. :-)

And that too...

[NoCmpromiz]

Even more importantly, what do YOU think of the Holy Bible?

Interesting question.

You first...

[daniel1212]

Amazing then that almost all the words of the Hail Mary are from the Bible:

And Mormonism can claim to same for some of its material, but the issue is whether praying the Hail Mary to her is in Scripture.

“What saith the Scriptures?” (Rm. 4:3; 11:2; Gal. 4:30) “Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. (Proverbs 30:6)”
1	Prayers in Scripture addressed to God in Heaven	Over 200 prayers, besides instruction on prayer to Heaven. (“Our Father who art in Heaven,” not “Out Mother.”)
	Prayers in Scripture addressed to any created beings in Heaven	ZERO prayers or examples, or in instruction on prayer to Heaven
2	Examples or teaching showing God being able to hear and respond to prayer from earth addressed to Him in Heaven.	Multiple. “I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will heal thee..” (2 Kings 20:5; cf. Ps. 65:2; 66:19,20; Lk 1:13)
	Examples or teaching showing created beings being able to hear and respond to prayer from earth addressed to them in Heaven.	ZERO. Angels and elders offering up prayers before the judgments of the last days in memorial (Rev. 5:8 and 8:3,4; f. Lv. 2:2,15,16; 24:7; Num. 5:15) does not constitute this ability, which is unique to God.
3	Examples or teaching showing God able to personally communicate with man from Heaven.	Many. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. (2 Corinthians 12:8-9)
	Examples or teaching showing created beings being able to converse with man from Heaven.	ZERO. From what I see, all two-way communication required both created beings to somehow be consciously operating in the same realm.
4	Examples or teaching Christ as being the heavenly intercessor between man and God.	Many. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5) For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. (Hebrews 2:18) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:15-16) Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25)
	Examples or teaching any as created beings as heavenly intercessor between man and God.	ZERO. See under 2 above.

[daniel1212]

And Jesus never carried a Bible.

That is pure sophistry. What did the Lord establish His Truth claims upon, Scriptural substantiation in word and in power, or the premise of perpetual ensured magisterial infallibility, as per Rome?

[daniel1212]

. May I ask, what your experience with this “prayer circle” is?

Hope its not this:

From the Sinsinawa Dominican nuns:

Finding New Connectors to God

We will explore the four types of claires ... clairvoyance (pictures), clairaudience (hearing), clairsentience (feelings) and claircogniznace (knowing) ... trying to discover one that resonates with you to help you better connect with the Divine power and bring awareness to where you are spiritually. The retreat will combine the Hatha physical experience and meditation practice of Yoga. This retreat will be semi-silent (silence will be observed at all times except during our group sessions). - https://www.sinsinawa.org/MoundCenter/RetreatDetail.cfm?num=580

Zentangle Workshop

Zentangle is a pen and ink meditative art form. The class consists of two sessions in which the participant will learn to draw eight to ten patterns. Interspersed with the drawing will be mindfulness and meditative exercises. "Almost anyone can use Zentangle to create beautiful images. It increases focus and creativity, provides artistic satisfaction along with an increased sense of personal well being. - https://www.sinsinawa.org/MoundCenter/RetreatDetail.cfm?num=591

We invite you to walk the labyrinth and discover a new, yet ancient way to pray . . . to meditate.

The labyrinth is an ancient spiritual tool, founded as early as 200 B.C.E. Its history includes use in Crete, Tibet, Greece, Celtic spirituality, early European art, and in the Christian tradition.

And no longer offered:

A Circle of Drums This workshop is a high-energy, hands-on presentation emphasizing collaborative, creative individual expression while also exhibiting the benefits of synergetic group dynamics. Bill uses an ensemble of beautiful drums and percussion instruments from around the world to facilitate a meaningful team-building experience that celebrates the expansive nature of human potential and the ecstatic response to group rhythm-making. It is our hope that everyone who participates in the experience will enjoy a powerful body/mind/spirit encounter that will last a lifetime! - https://www.sinsinawa.org/MoundCenter/RetreatDetail.cfm?num=536

[StormPrepper]

Are you telling us that Stephen -- because He prayed DIRECTLY to Jesus and not God the Father -- is to "condemned" & "casted out" at the "last day"???

59 While they were stoning him, Stephen PRAYED, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” (Acts 7:59)

I see your cherry picking and selective editing skills are as good as ever.

The real scripture:
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

This is not a transcription, the writer wrote this down years after the event had occurred. I only know that Stephen was being stoned to death, I doubt if he could utter a formal prayer while people where beating him in the head with large rocks...He was calling to Jesus whom he could see. I explain more below.

They prayed to him in 3 Nephi 19:7...again in v. 18

And let the selective editing continue...sheesh

Here's the real 3 Nephi 19:

6 And the twelve did teach the multitude; and behold, they did cause that the multitude should kneel down upon the face of the earth, and should pray unto the Father in the name of Jesus.

7 And the disciples did pray unto the Father also in the name of Jesus. And it came to pass that they arose and ministered unto the people.

8 And when they had ministered those same words which Jesus had spoken—nothing varying from the words which Jesus had spoken—behold, they knelt again and prayed to the Father in the name of Jesus.

Jesus Himself praying to the Father...

22 Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them.

Jesus is standing with them and they are communicating with Him. Communicating with deity is called a "prayer". This is why Stephen's cry to Jesus is called a "prayer". He's looking into heaven and seeing Jesus. However, as 3 Nephi 19 states, Jesus taught them that formal prayers are to go to their Father in Heaven.

can claim what your Mormon leaders claim

If anyone would like to see what I would consider the perfect instruction on prayer they can go here

[StormPrepper]

all while its main standard work for which they are nicknamed has even by their own admission LOTS of books left out...others "abridged"...and which books to be included on the "golden plates" was apparently decided by just one man about sixteen hundred years ago...IF we are to believe what they say)

Except the fact that, that man was a prophet of God and under the direction of Jesus Christ.

This is perfectly inline with what the prophet Amos declared:

Amos 3:
7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

This is how God does it when He wants to give us a volume of scripture. He instructs a prophet, the prophet completes the task and passes it along to us.

Deciding on scripture without a prophet is unthinkable...I mean, doing something like that and you could spend the next 2000 years trying to decide if you should baptize babies or not...oh wait...

[Georgia Girl 2]

Yes passing the offering plate twice just seems somehow unchristian. You would think with all that money being collected they could afford to baptize us twice. :-)

[NoCmpromiz]

Hmm...that does ring a bell.

It is my personal opinion that one that comes on a Christian thread and uses a characteristic cult buzz phrase (e.g. "premortal existence") is telegraphing the fact that thy are no more Christian than Barack Obama...

My personal opinion as I said. Your (and possibly other's) mileage, of course, may vary...

[StormPrepper]

Not chosen...merely "received" it..."confirmed" that which the Holy Spirit already set apart, to the obvious discernment of early church fathers:

This is filling in the gaps from hind sight to appear legitimate.

Solomon Song was Solomon's love sonets to his concubines. I doubt if the Holy Spirit set those apart for anything...

There were many more writings. And YES chosen. The so called "early church fathers" acted without authority. They had no authority to cull anything. Only a prophet with direct communication from God can do that.

Paul stated before he died:
2 Timothy 1:
15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me;

All those in Asia had gone apostate. Which included the Church in Ephesus.

These so called "church fathers" created an apostate church and gave it a short volume of scripture guaranteed to confuse the true doctrine of God for 1800 years. Down to the utter vast chaos that is "Christianity" today.

A church so violent that it would have killed any true prophet God would have tried to raise up. And did in fact kill people by the tens of thousands in the most horrific ways imaginable. Started wars...millions died needlessly.

Tens of thousands died in order to gain religious freedom from the clutches of that church too.

The true Church of God had one and only one father and that was Jesus Christ. He created His Church.

You call these men "early church fathers". In essence that's true. They are the fathers of their own church. Jesus started His and these men started theirs.

History and the current state of the "church" today shows this to be true.

[daniel1212]

I respectfully suggest it is the Catholics who need to address Catholic issues. All denominations need to stop pointing fingers at others and fix their own house first. FR shouldn’t be a religious battleground. This will only cause further divisions within the Conservative Base.

Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry. Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him. (Acts 17:16-17)

When you have RCs for years using FR as a RC news and apologetics service for their elitist church, you cannot expect evangelicals who are not promoting any one particular "house" to not confront this cultic system.

Until recently there were hardly any Prot articles reproving RC faith, but i can give you a list of RCs doing so against Prot faith, strawmen included. But now some souls we never saw post before start posting objections. Seems odd.

[daniel1212]

See post 367 .

[daniel1212]

Honoring the Virgin Mary, conceived without sin as the holy vessel who would give birth to Jesus our Savior, with the title of Mother of God, does not mean that she is thought a goddess. It’s an honorific.

The honoring of the Virgin Mary goes way beyond even making her sinless, the absence of which from Scripture is contrary to how the Spirit characteristically mentions exceptions to the norm even from lesser persons.

Note that many Catholic Marian attributions much parallel even that of Christ:

For in the the Catholic quest to almost deify Mary, it is taught by Catholics*,

• as Christ was sinless, so Mary was;

• as the Lord remained a virgin, so Mary;

• as Christ was called the Son of God, indicating ontological oneness, so Mary is called the Mother of God (which easily infers the same, and is not the language of Scripture);

• as the emphasis is upon Christ as the Creator through whom God (the Father) made all things, including Mary, so it is emphasized that uniquely “to her, Jesus owes His Precious Blood,” shed for the salvation of mankind, (the logic behind which can lead back to Eve);

• as Catholics (adding error to error) believe Christ gave His actual flesh and blood to be eaten, so it is emphasized that Mary gave Him this, being fashioned out of Mary's pure blood and even being “kneaded with the admixture of her virginal milk,” so that she can say, "Come and eat my bread, drink the wine I have prepared" (Prov. 9:5);

• as Scripture declares that Christ suffered for our sins, so Mary is said to have done so also;

• as Christ saves us from the condemnation and death resulting from the fault of Adam, so it is taught that man was condemned through the fault of Eve, the root of death, but that we are saved through the merits of Mary; who was the source of life for everyone.

• as the Lord was bodily ascended into Heaven, so Mary also was;

• as Christ is given all power in heaven and in earth, so Mary is “surpassing in power all the angels and saints in Heaven.”

• as Christ is the King of the saints and over all kings, (Rv. 15:3; 17:14; 19:16) so Mary is made Queen of Heaven and the greatest saint, and that “Next to God, she deserves the highest praise;”

• as the Father made Christ Lord over all things, so Mary is enthroned (all other believers have to wait for their crowns) and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things;

• as Christ is the express image of God, and highly exalted above all under the Father, having the primary position among all creation, so Mary is declared to be the greatest saint of all, and the first of all creatures, and as having a certain affinity with the Father, with a pre-eminent resemblance which she bears to the Father;

• as Christ ever liveth to make intercession for the saints, so is Mary said to do so;

• as all things come from the Father through the Son, so Mary is made to be the dispenser of all grace;

• as Christ is given all power on Heaven and on earth, Mary is said to have (showing some restraint) “almost unlimited power;”

• as no man comes to the Father but through the Son, so it is taught that no one can come to the Son except through Mary in Heaven;

• and as the Lord called souls to come to Him to be given life and salvation, so (in misappropriation of the words of Scripture) it is said of Mary, “He that shall find me shall find life, and shall have salvation from the Lord;” “that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation. For this is His will, that we obtain everything through Mary.”

• And as Christ is given many titles of honor, so Mary also is, except that she is honored by Catholics with more titles than they give to the Lord Himself!

Mary was a holy, virtuous instrument of God, but of whom Scripture says relatively little, while holy fear ought to restrain ascribing positions, honor, glory and powers to a mortal that God has not revealed as given to them, and or are only revealed as being possessed by God Himself. But like as the Israelites made an instrument of God an object of worship, (Num. 21:8,9; 2Kg. 18:4) Catholics have magnified Mary far beyond what is written and warranted and even allowed, based on what is in Scripture.

[StormPrepper]

[sp]The Bible is a tool of learning. It doesn't contain everything we need, but it's useful.

And still true.

[Colofornian]Wow! Don't overwhelm us with your description of God's Word!

"God's Word" is your description, not God's. The Bible contains some of the words, instruction, and dealings with God, but not all. It also contains the musings of men, commentaries, remembered stories, and words of the prophets.

Truth is truth. I worship God not some of the writings about God. Some of the writings in the Bible aren't about God at all.

ALL: Unlike Stormprepper's open dissing of the Bible: 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. (2 Tim. 3)

ALL: Colofornian likes to state the above until you point out that the "All Scripture" means all scripture. Even the scripture the so called "church fathers" decided they didn't like so they threw it out.

For example:

1. book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14)
2. book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18)
3. book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41)
4. book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29)
5. book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29:29)
6. book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29)
7. prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29)
8. visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22)
9. book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15)
10. book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34)
11. sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19)
12. an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9)
13. possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3)
14. an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4:16)
15. and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1:14)
16. the manner of the kingdom, written by Samuel (1 Sam. 10:25)
17. the rest of the acts of Uzziah written by Isaiah (2 Chr. 26:22)

Vision, prophesies and instruction all gone. And this is just what we have references to. How much was there on top of this?

All scripture means all scripture. And no, the Bible doesn't contain it all. There was a whole lot more...

[StormPrepper]

"Useful" is an understatement in describing the Holy Bible!

That's your opinion. I respect that everyone has their own.

What do you find lacking in it for a reader/hearer coming to a knowledge of the truth regarding and believing in Who Jesus of Nazareth really is

The New Testament is not a complete instruction manual. Most of it is writings to specific groups of people reiterating and restating what they had been taught, face to face by the Apostles.

Nearly all of their specific instructions on how and what to do in Christ Church was all taught orally.

Such as Acts 8:
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

The Holy Ghost this is referring to is called the "Gift of the Holy Ghost". It's a different gift given by the laying on of hands by those with proper authority.

It's different than the Holy Spirit which testifies of truth, which anyone can feel.

The scriptures chosen by the council in 382AD didn't contain any instruction on how, what, or why and so it was lost over time.

Christ said with perfect knowledge of what's to come, that only those that do what His Father commands would enter heaven. The problem with modern Christianity is that it only allows itself to use the Bible so it really doesn't know what to do with that statement.

[StormPrepper]

You need lasik surgery or an updated pair of glasses. You mean in Ruth, Song of Solomon; where and in which Book is He not present?

Song of Solomon would be the biggest offender. Those are Solomon's love sonets to his concubines. Seriously don't try to use some tortured logic for which this could in some strange way be scripture. Because it's not.

The Prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29) didn't make it in...but Song of Solomon did... what's wrong with this picture? There's a long list of writings from true prophets they threw out in favor of Song of Solomon.

I wish we had the Prophecy of Ahijah. It probably said something important...