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The Problem with Going to Heaven
Glory to God for All Things ^ | Fr Stephen Freeman

Posted on 03/05/2015 5:44:45 AM PST by don-o

“That man might become God…” On its surface this statement simply sounds blasphemous. Interpreted in a wrong manner, it would be worse than blasphemous. When read correctly, however, it is the very essence of salvation itself. “To go to heaven…” from my childhood this phrase has been used as the goal of a Christian life. But, interpreted in its most common manner, it is only a Christianized version of paganism.

The distinction between these two statements can be found in their treatment of the interior life. The first, “to become God,” suggests profound, even transcendent change within a person. The second, “to go to heaven,” suggests only a change of location. It is this change in location that is essentially pagan.

It is essentially pagan, meaning that it differs in no way from the sentiments of the ancient Romans, Greeks and the Norse. For to “become a God” in their pantheon would only mean a change in location. The gods of the ancient pagans differed in no way from human beings, other than being bigger, more powerful and in a larger location. But they had their faults. They could be greedy, angry, vindictive, jealous, lustful, etc. And because this was so, human beings needed to be careful not to offend them or to provoke their envy.

For many people the statement, “to become God,” still carries a pagan meaning. It infers the acquisition of divine power and ability and somehow becoming a rival to the one God. This is the blasphemous meaning of the phrase and we do well to instinctively oppose it. We sometimes say of someone, “He thinks he’s some sort of a god,” and we never mean it as a compliment.

But within the New Testament and in the long history of Christian teaching, there is a perfectly acceptable use of the phrase. In 2 Peter we read:

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2Pe 1:2-4 NKJ)

This is synonymous with concepts such as being “transformed” into the image of Christ (Ro. 8:29; 2Cor 3:18). But the right understanding of this “divinization” is not a transformation into a pagan deity, nor a rivaling of the One God. Indeed, the Fathers, with later theological precision, are careful to say that we become “by grace” what God is “by nature.”

But it is utterly essential to the Christian telling of the gospel, that our salvation should be understood in terms of transformation, of an inner metamorphosis towards the image of Christ. Salvation is not a mere change in location (going to heaven).

And this makes sense when it is considered thoughtfully. The problems within our existence are not rooted in location. I do not hate, cheat, lie and hurt others simply because I’m living in the wrong place, and my re-location to some ideal paradise will not, in-and-of-itself, make a difference in what must be changed. If you put me in paradise right now, with no change in me, then I’ll ruin the place for others in very short order.

I have observed on a number of occasions that parish Churches are either paradise or a colony of hell. This is true simply because of the state of the heart. Those who carry hell in their hearts make the world hell for all around them. Those who carry paradise within are the bringers of paradise. And so we pray when we approach communion that the Holy Gifts would be “neither for our judgment nor our condemnation,” but “for the healing of soul and body.”

That “healing of soul and body” is measured by “the fullness of the stature of Christ” (Eph. 4:13). Anything less than this is not the salvation promised in the Scriptures. In truth, if heaven is not dwelling in our hearts, then nothing outside of us will seem as heaven. And if hell is dwelling in our hearts, everything around us will seem like hell. In the words of St. Macarius:

The heart itself is but a small vessel, yet dragons are there, and there are also lions; there are poisonous beasts and all the treasures of evil. But there too is God, the angels, the life and the kingdom, the light and the apostles, the heavenly cities and the treasuries of grace—all things are there.

This marks the daily struggle of the Christian – the life of paradise versus the life of hell. These are not external rewards and punishments but simply ways of speaking about the state of the heart – ways of describing what we are becoming.

It has been my experience that those who judge others are almost always inwardly condemning themselves. Those who regularly speak well of all and even excuse others have an inward peace. It is troubling that there are so many of the former and so few of the latter. Will there be many who are saved?


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To: Gamecock

“...How dare we...”

The doctrines found in Catechism of the Catholic Church are perfectly cross referenced and backed by scripture, the writings of the earliest Church Fathers and Doctors, including from the First Century .

Serious Catholics read the Catechism and the bible and have no problem with excerpts being posted. Keep posting the CCC. Why on earth would it bother us?

At issue is the deliberate parodying and twisting of the Catholic position (non Catholics have no idea what they are talking about) and then mocking the parody set up. This tactic is similar to the bait and switch unsavory method sometimes found in sales.


21 posted on 03/05/2015 7:08:01 AM PST by stonehouse01
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To: don-o; All
Problems with Heaven
1. Are you awake all the time or is there time set aside for sleep?
2. I'm sure there's an "A-list". There will be the peasantry and red velvet ropes.
3. There will be guys who let their girlfriends climb onto their shoulders to "get a better look".
4. Will you have to acknowledge everybody you knew?

22 posted on 03/05/2015 7:13:51 AM PST by j.argese (/s tags: If you have a mind unnecessary. If you're a cretin it really doesn't matter, does it?)
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To: don-o

Or they have already crashed the thread. LOL! Prayers for their souls.


23 posted on 03/05/2015 7:47:27 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: don-o

I doubt if very many of us will have to worry about it.


24 posted on 03/05/2015 7:59:13 AM PST by ravenwolf (s letters scripture.)
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To: don-o
But within the New Testament and in the long history of Christian teaching, there is a perfectly acceptable use of the phrase. In 2 Peter we read:

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2Pe 1:2-4 NKJ)

This is synonymous with concepts such as being “transformed” into the image of Christ (Ro. 8:29; 2Cor 3:18). But the right understanding of this “divinization” is not a transformation into a pagan deity, nor a rivaling of the One God. Indeed, the Fathers, with later theological precision, are careful to say that we become “by grace” what God is “by nature.”

But it is utterly essential to the Christian telling of the gospel, that our salvation should be understood in terms of transformation, of an inner metamorphosis towards the image of Christ. Salvation is not a mere change in location (going to heaven).

Excellent observations and in conformity with many other passages of scripture, including:

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
John, Catholic chapter seventeen, Protestant verses twenty to twenty six, as authorized by King James

25 posted on 03/05/2015 8:25:26 AM PST by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began.)
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To: tflabo

Correct.. Christ is the model we strive to emulate we will alway fall short being man but we still strive towards our model in Christ we strive to become Christ-like God-like in our spirit and thinking...that’s not the same as saying I am Christ I am God... we are not God in our will rules.. we do not lead... we follow God as a template to be like God.. God is the template ..he “is”


26 posted on 03/05/2015 8:47:39 AM PST by tophat9000 (An Eye for an Eye, a Word for a Word...nothing more)
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To: tflabo

“...We cannot pretend religiosity...”

Is imitating Christ “pretending religiosity”?

Scripture instructs us to imitate Christ, so I certainly hope that is not what we are getting at.

Christ finished His work on the cross in order that we might now cooperate with that work by using our own free will not to continue to sin.

Matthew 10:38

Luke 14:27

1 Peter 2:21

If following Jesus is “religiosity” then “religiosity” must be OK.


27 posted on 03/05/2015 9:17:22 AM PST by stonehouse01
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To: CynicalBear

I noticed that too.


28 posted on 03/05/2015 7:53:03 PM PST by StoneWall Brigade (Daniel 2 Daniel 7 Daniel 9 Revelation 13 Revelation 16 Revelation 17 Revelation 18 Revelation 19)
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To: don-o; All

There is a context issue. It’s not “become God”, it’s “become a god.”

Little “g”. It matters.

“a god” as in a perfect person with all power that “God” gives to those He exalts.

God the Father will always be God the Father. His greatest reward is to raise up His children to be like Him.

Romans 8:17

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Joint-heirs with Christ, glorified together with Christ.


29 posted on 03/06/2015 8:45:31 AM PST by StormPrepper
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