Posted on 03/01/2015 4:54:44 PM PST by NKP_Vet
Archbishop Fulton Sheen once wrote: “There are not over a hundred people in the United State who hate the Roman Catholic Church; there are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church.”
I was one of those who hated because of what I wrongly believed about the Catholic Church. The reason I had these beliefs was due to being told what to believe about the Catholic Church from those who were told what to believe about the Catholic Church. No one was willing to find out what the bottom line was concerning the Catholic Church. Everything said about the Church was taken as truth while it seemed no one was delving into what the truth really was.
What about these Catholics? They worshipped Mary. They had a religion but not a relationship with Jesus Christ. They said they believed in God but really their belief couldn’t be the same, could it? The Bible says in James 2:19 KJV “Thou believest that there is one God; Thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble”.
So do Catholics have a belief such as the devils? When most Catholics are asked if they have been “born again” or “have accepted Christ as their Savior”, their main response is “I believe in God” or “I am a good person”, or “I’m Catholic”. Also, they have all these rituals, Saints, Statues and what about the Pope is he really standing in for God? Another big item, are they cannibals when they eat the bread and drink the wine during communion? Why do they leave Jesus on the cross, don’t they realize Jesus has risen from the dead?
For the rest of Steve’s story, click at link.
(Excerpt) Read more at catholic-convert.com ...
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The fundamentals of the faith is what John’s first epistle is all about. Same for the book of Acts, but going there requires clearing one’s head of the nonsense that is taught about the 15th chapter, and reading it for understanding.
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Nonsense taught about the 15th chapter.....I presume you mean Acts. Care to clarify what the "nonsense" is?
So, your primitive house church has no actual statement of faith that is believed?
best.
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Sorry to hit your weak spot so hard! (just a wild guess)
There are no “key verses” anywhere in scripture. That is how heresy is born. The bare minimum to begin to understand scripture is to always read at lease the whole chapter, and if the chapter begins with a conjunctive word like therefore, wherefore, etc, then also read the preceding chapter first.
Lawlessness in English bibles usually comes from “anomia” in the Greek, which is “being without Torah.”
Yes, you are correct that they want nothing to do with his laws. The problems partly stem from the “unbearable” burden of the Pharisees false oral laws, but that is not the end of it. Most people don’t want any laws or restrictions on their lives, so they reject the loving laws of Torah too.
They only want his “grace” but they won’t let him write his Torah on their hearts, without which grace is useless, because deliberate sin continues.
Yeshua plainly said in Matthew 24 that we must endure in faith and love to the end to be saved. Those that lose their commitment lose eternal life. Hebrews 6, and 2Peter 2 both tell the same story about such individuals.
Yeshua in Matthew 7 is speaking of the same people as Peter spoke of in his second epistle, those that had tasted of the Holy Spirit, but turned back. Not unlike the wealthy young man that Yeshua told to give away his wealth, and because he loved that wealth more than anything, he turned away.
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Believing in and following Jesus does not mean mimicking him. Our life is now hidden IN Him...in Christ. Remember, break one law...and guilty of all. Jesus of Nazareth did for us what we cannot do, which I think you’re saying we still need to sort of do.
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The funny thing about creeds, and statements of faith, is that they are man made, and thus error is always possible.
This is how the big churches end up going astray. They may start out on the right foot, but a little tweak has to be made for this or that, and then later another, and pretty soon you have something that the people love, and it begins to replace the scriptures.
If someone rejects the preaching he hears, eventually they either argue to try to make a change, or they just leave.
This is why James called in Acts 15:21 for the believers to go to their synagogue EVERY Sabbath day to hear the scriptures read. One may argue with a sermon, but it is harder to argue with scripture.
Reading the Acts, it quickly becomes clear that all that they did revolved around the Sabbath meetings where the newcomers learned by hearing. As Paul said to the Romans, “faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
Nope....no weak spot at all.
There are no “key verses” anywhere in scripture. That is how heresy is born. The bare minimum to begin to understand scripture is to always read at lease the whole chapter, and if the chapter begins with a conjunctive word like therefore, wherefore, etc, then also read the preceding chapter first.
On this I tend to agree with. There are however, some verses in a passage that give the meaning clarity; some words bring the text into focus more than others. You cite an example in your reply. I agree that all must be taken into context....something the rcc doesn't do that often.
Did you missed the part about those who practice lawlessness....these are not Christians. They never were. They've rejected God's plan totally.
Reconcile your position of losing salvation with John 6:37 and Colossians 2:13-14; Ephesians 1:13-14.
The Greek is the key to understanding this.
But if you believe you can lose your salvation, then, and I presume your catholics, I would head to the house of the priest right now without delay and camp out on his doorstep so you'd be in a position to confess sins as they arise. As I understand catholicism if you die with unconfessed "mortal" sins then you do not go to Heaven.
That's a terrible way to live....that's called fear. And it's not the way Jesus intended His children to live.
We have a loving God who loved us so much He gave His only begotten Son to die on a cross for all of our sins. He died on a cross for the full payment of our sins, mortal or venial, big or small, and has cancelled out the certificate of debt against us having nailed it to a cross.
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Really?
1John 2:
[1] My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[2] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[3] And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[4] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[5] But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[6] He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
Looks like John disagrees with you, huh? .
Agree with post 966, a very solid post and needs to be said.
Having said that, I urge you to not carry things further than what you said in post 966. I’ve watched several Christians take it further and border on becoming cultish themselves, and I among them.
I needed someone to stop me from going to far off and to get me to listen to reason. They did, praise God!
Yes, statements of faith are man made compilations of what they believe the Scriptures are teaching.
I would say that the odds of going astray are far less if you have to change the statment of faith than if the door is open for anyone to claim whatever they want about what the Scriptures mean - which they do. Which is why we got summary statements as heresy came into the Church.
At this point, with nothing to put forth except a old and new testament, your understanding of them and a primitive house church that is not an organized group, I am left with your posts alone. On the basis of much of what you’ve posted over the past year, I think you are involved with a fringe group.
I believe you are well meaning, but into some bad teaching that has led you into heresy. I feel for you, obviously.
My experience with those in these types of groups is that they are not open to being taught, but highly desirous to tell everyone else why they are wrong and their small group alone holds the key to truth - hidden until now.
I do wish you well FRiend. Thank you for the discussion and again, I am sorry I thought you were in the Rood group. I take you at your word that you are not.
They believed themselves to be doing the work of the spirit. Yeshua made that point very clearly. He also said that he did not know them, so you are right, they were not cutting the mustard.
This is true of most that call themselves “Christian” today.
It's not a matter of losing salvation, because as Yeshua made clear in Matthew 24 that one must endure to the end to be saved.
The verses that you rely on do not offer what you want to believe they do. They only reflect the apostle's confidence in a particular congregation, not a guarantee of salvation.
Peter addresses this well
2Peter 1
[1] Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[2] Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
[3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
Get that? - They had forgotten that their old sins were purged!
Practicing “lawlessness” means rejecting Torah, either consciously or unconsciously.
If we truly yield to him, he does write his laws on our hearts, but how many truly yield? Hebrews 6 and 1Peter 2 are not idle chit-chat. They address people that had the Holy Spirit, but failed.
Unless you natively speak and read Greek, the Greek is no key to anything. The English translations of Hebrews and 2Peter say it as it was meant to be said.
Turnin’ in now. G’night.
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Get a grip!
You are protecting what offers you comfort, regardless of what scripture says.
That is dangerous in the same way that the creeds and statements of faith are dangerous.
Yes scripture is the fringe in today’s world, and I will celebrate that I have not fallen off that fringe of solid scripture, into the well accepted gang of Matthew 7.
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OK, I see what you meant!
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Without Catholics on FR there would be no Religion Forum. Catholics start the vast majority of the threads. I don’t guess protestants or evangelicals have much to be proud of. If they do you would never know it by the threads proclaiming their faith.
Say what??? Some slight or words going on?
Good talking to you then.
I’m not commenting on house churches, but on heretical splinter groups...
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