1) Do any of you agree with this?
2) Is this understanding held by non-Catholics?
3) Have you seen this before or been taught this, and if so where, when, and by whom?
1) Do any of you agree with this?
2) Is this understanding held by non-Catholics?
3) Have you seen this before or been taught this, and if so where, when, and by whom?
Re verga's post #56, which started this sidebar:
[Cynical Bear:] And Christ's sacrifice on that cross paid every last cent owed.Do Catholics believe that Christ's sacrifice on the cross didn't pay every last cent owed? Or is that belief just yours?[verga:] So you are saying the Bible is wrong, or didn't Jesus and Matthew get the memo?
We both received the same Catholic raising and education growing up. So I know you know the context to RNMomof7’s comments. Yes I read the previous posts.
The New Covenant is in Jesus Christ’s Blood. So to put it more clearly EVERY Gospel account BEFORE the Cross and Empty Tomb must be seen in their light. So more accurately, yes the ministry of Christ as recorded in the Gospels is during the Old Covenant but the events of His death and resurrection and glorification define the New Covenant.
The Gospels are rightly placed in the NT canon as Christ’s birth, life and ministry all point to the Cross and Empty Tomb.
Understand this is a point of view not a doctrine or dogma. This is typically used to provide additional consideration of the Old Testament as many Protestants tend to view the OT as a bunch of stories and songs but with very little relevance to the NT.
A short summary of this view point is that during the time of the OT, God’s presence via the Holy Spirit resided in the Temple. When Jesus was baptized, the Holy Spirit in it’s full power was withdrawn from the Temple and descended upon Jesus. Then Jesus conducted his ministry and was crucified. At that time, the Holy Spirit was released and descended during Pentecost.
To that end, the OT law was in effect until Jesus’s death. The law of sin and death was not superseded by the law of grace and mercy until the Holy of Holy curtain was torn, symbolically removing the separation between man and God, because God has left the temple and now resides in our hearts. As such, the Gospels are the history of Jesus ministry and if one take the view (thus my use of the term view point) that the OT law burden ended with Jesus death, they would then from a time line view, fall into the OT.
This view then used to educate others about Jesus being the head priest and why the numbers, stories, feasts in the OT were a foretelling of the coming of Jesus and how he fulfilled the sacrificial requirements and how that tied into Jewish tradition.
I should point out that at no time does this view change doctrine or dogma. It is just another way to drive a point home.
Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross and subsequent rise from the grave occurred during the gospels. “Gospel” means good news and designates Jesus’s time on earth which is not the same distinction as the one you are trying to draw. The Bible is a living book, and is to be treated respectfully. It isn’t a chapter book written for your amusement. It’s not a play, but even so the curtain was rent.
Well...
1) Do any of you agree with this?
2) Is this understanding held by non-Catholics?
3) Have you seen this before or been taught this, and if so where, when, and by whom?
1. Yes. FAITH is mighty Old Testement!
2. I would hope so!
3. Even YOUR book has it!
Hebrews 11 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
1 Now faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not.
2 For by this the ancients obtained a testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the world was framed by the word of God; that from invisible things visible things might be made.
4 By faith Abel offered to God a sacrifice exceeding that of Cain, by which he obtained a testimony that he was just, God giving testimony to his gifts; and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Henoch was translated, that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had testimony that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.
7 By faith Noe, having received an answer concerning those things which as yet were not seen, moved with fear, framed the ark for the saving of his house, by the which he condemned the world; and was instituted heir of the justice which is by faith.
8 By faith he that is called Abraham, obeyed to go out into a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he abode in the land, dwelling in cottages, with Isaac and Jacob, the co-heirs of the same promise.
10 For he looked for a city that hath foundations; whose builder and maker is God.
11 By faith also Sara herself, being barren, received strength to conceive seed, even past the time of age; because she believed that he was faithful who had promised,
12 For which cause there sprung even from one (and him as good as dead) as the stars of heaven in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 All these died according to faith, not having received the promises, but beholding them afar off, and saluting them, and confessing that they are pilgrims and strangers on the earth.
14 For they that say these things, do signify that they seek a country.
15 And truly if they had been mindful of that from whence they came out, they had doubtless time to return.
16 But now they desire a better, that is to say, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered Isaac: and he that had received the promises, offered up his only begotten son;
18 (To whom it was said: In Isaac shall thy seed be called.)
19 Accounting that God is able to raise up even from the dead. Whereupon also he received him for a parable.
20 By faith also of things to come, Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau.
21 By faith Jacob dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and adored the top of his rod.
22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the going out of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months by his parents; because they saw he was a comely babe, and they feared not the king's edict.
24 By faith Moses, when he was grown up, denied himself to be the son of Pharao's daughter;
25 Rather choosing to be afflicted with the people of God, than to have the pleasure of sin for a time,
26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasure of the Egyptians. For he looked unto the reward.
27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the fierceness of the king: for he endured as seeing him that is invisible.
28 By faith he celebrated the pasch, and the shedding of the blood; that he, who destroyed the firstborn, might not touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea, as by dry land: which the Egyptians attempting, were swallowed up.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, by the going round them seven days.
31 By faith Rahab the harlot perished not with the unbelievers, receiving the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I yet say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, Barac, Samson, Jephthe, David, Samuel, and the prophets:
33 Who by faith conquered kingdoms, wrought justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, recovered strength from weakness, became valiant in battle, put to flight the armies of foreigners:
35 Women received their dead raised to life again. But others were racked, not accepting deliverance, that they might find a better resurrection.
36 And others had trial of mockeries and stripes, moreover also of bands and prisons.
37 They were stoned, they were cut asunder, they were tempted, they were put to death by the sword, they wandered about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being in want, distressed, afflicted:
38 Of whom the world was not worthy; wandering in deserts, in mountains, and in dens, and in caves of the earth.
39 And all these being approved by the testimony of faith, received not the promise;
40 God providing some better thing for us, that they should not be perfected without us.